This sort of nonsense should be ridiculed to the max

[M54 (Molly)]

Originally Posted by renormalised

That's exactly right, Rob. The madder the idea, the more zealous and evangelistic its followers are. It's the old religious impulse at work.................. As you mentioned, it's just a click, click, click world with attention spans lasting all of 10 seconds and even there some can't last that long.

Yes, Karl Marx once said...'Religion is the opiate of the masses'. (not necessarily my view)

Entertainment and shiny gadgets are now the opiate of choice.

[sjastro]

If you think the article is rubbish take a look at their forums.
Being a mathematician I get a real laugh at their attacks on mathematics and mathematicians.

Here are some examples.

(1) Comments on "How the Universe Works" documentary narrated by Stephen Hawking.

"There it is folks... there is the experiment of the worshipped relativist... all that is required is your miiiiiiiind.

This is not physics
This is not science
This is stoopid nonsensical retarded misleading mathematical thought-game filth of which can never be consistently reproduced, therefore It is not an experiment."

"The Discovery Channel has been airing a series, How The Universe Works, explaining the secrets of the Universe (to the feeble minded masses) and I cannot help but to be impressed by the sheer magnitude of the hubris of these mathematical theorists! such as, but not limited to, Stephen Hawkings."

(2) Comments on the Standard Model of Particle Physics.

"The only thing spinning in this context of "spin" would seem to be the mystical mathematician's web of deceit and delusion. Don't know much of his rope theory but I'd have to go with Gaede on this one with respect to the mathematician's conjuring of ... spin."

(3)Comments on New Math
(This "new math" is a website that takes a swipe at mathematics. Needless to say it has a lot of fans)

"Non-Euclidean geometry is a sick joke and contains a theorem which demonstrates itself to be a joke.

It's called Lobachevsky Theorem 20 which proves mathematically that Non-Euclidean geometry is false.

"Theorem 20: If in any triangle the sum of the three angles is equal to two right angles, so is this the case for every other triangle." -- Nikolai I. Lobachevsky, mathematician, 1840"

Regards

Steven

[renormalised (Carl)]

Here's another piece of "infinite wisdom" I found in a signature there...

The difference between a Creationist and a believer in the Big Bang is that the Creationists admit they are operating on blind faith... Big Bang believers call their blind faith "theoretical mathematical variables" and claim to be scientists rather than the theologists they really are.

Or how about this particular thread...

http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB...php?f=6&t=3073

[luigi]

I've never seen someone confuse a glacier with an interplanetary plasma discharge. Maybe the writer doesn't have a cat?

[sjastro]

Originally Posted by renormalised

http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB...php?f=6&t=3073

It's the sort of "international recognition" that IIS doesn't deserve.

Regards

Steven

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by marki

Carl I think you may have found your niche or calling in life. The total eradication of the "Electric Universe" .

If you're a plasma cosmologist he'll beat you well with his 'science for dummy' third edition book. Watch out!

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by multiweb

If you're a plasma cosmologist he'll beat you well with his 'science for dummy' third edition book. Watch out!

I'll give it away to them, might even get Stephen Hawking and Ned Wright to autograph it for them....

"To ....., may you black holes suck and your space forever expand, love Stevie and Ned"

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by sjastro

It's the sort of "international recognition" that IIS doesn't deserve.

Regards

Steven

No, it's not, but it's at least expected from the "hot air group"

[Jen]

Originally Posted by Screwdriverone

Must have found a hidden crop in the bush and took some home to try out in his cookie baking,...me thinks.

lol Chris

[sjastro]

Originally Posted by renormalised

I'll give it away to them, might even get Stephen Hawking and Ned Wright to autograph it for them....

"To ....., may you black holes suck and your space forever expand, love Stevie and Ned"

You have to include the infamous cosmologist Rocky Kolb as well.

Kolb on reviewing Plasma cosmology's claim that spiral galaxies are formed by electric currents, stated he could form a more convincing theory based on toilet water spiral patterns when the loo is flushed.

Steven

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by Screwdriverone

Must have found a hidden crop in the bush and took some home to try out in his cookie baking,...me thinks.

If that's what it does to you then that is the best argument against legalizations I've ever heard.

[AstralTraveller (David)]

The trouble with attempting to debate this type of bollocks is that it's hard to know where to start. It's layer upon layer of falsehoods (eg water can't cut cliffs), misinformation (yes the valley does narrow downstream but that doesn't mean eroded material can't be transported out of the area) and false comparisons (pisolitic laterite cf Martian 'blueberries') all glued together with logical non sequiturs (it's not water so it must be plasma). It's like unscrambling eggs.

On the subject of scientific literacy I'd like to offer some more cheerful commentary. A now-retired academic (geologist) commented a couple of years ago that he felt that the average standard of science students had fallen over the decades. Part of this is certainly because uni is far less elitist than it was - far more students - and maybe also a fall in the standard of secondary education. However he felt that the top students are as good as ever, probably better. I sat in on some Honours students' seminars yesterday and was really quite impressed, in fact in one case blown away (that woman will go far). I reckon the standard is better than it was a decade ago. So it's not all doom and gloom.

[marki]

Originally Posted by renormalised

Here's another piece of "infinite wisdom" I found in a signature there...

Or how about this particular thread...

http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB...php?f=6&t=3073

I see you found that thread Carl .

Mark

[avandonk]

When ever I come across these people with new radical theories I ask one question.

What have you had published in a legitimate scientific peer reviewed journal?

If the answer is nothing, then they can be ignored.

From a quick read this charlie passes all the crackpot tests with flying colours.
The sad thing is if he is sincere he is just deluded and scientifically ignorant. If not sincere he is just another con man. Maybe he could advise the Merchant Banks as they have a firm grip on reality.


Bert

[Rob_K]

Originally Posted by sjastro

You have to include the infamous cosmologist Kolb on reviewing Plasma cosmology's claim that spiral galaxies are formed by electric currents, stated he could form a more convincing theory based on toilet water spiral patterns when the loo is flushed.

Steven

By swilling coffee in a 4-sided cup, I can create a beautiful representation of a 4-armed spiral galaxy. This will form the basis of my radical new science of cosmology. It is also less confronting than toilet bowl patterns. Adherents welcome - please form an orderly queue, and leave your brains at the door.

Cheers -

[renormalised (Carl)]

Unfortunately, Bert, he's not the only one at that particular site. And then you have legitimate "scientists" (electrical engineers to be more correct) coming out with "supporting" evidence for these ideas. You should read some of the nonsense Anthony Peratt and Don Scott have spouted. These guys are supposed to be "experts". And, when they do publish any material on the subject it's in IEEE journals of plasma physics and IEEE electrical engineering journals. When they do put a paper into an astronomy journal, it's in one of the more obscure, less cited and somewhat less stringently peer reviewed journals. That immediately tells you what the quality of the work is like and why they're trying to hide from the astronomical community in general. They know just how far their nonsense will get.

How's this for an example....I have a paper by Perrat (here's his biography, if you're interested), that claims, amongst other things, that the human shape stick figure petroglyphs found around the world were all inspired by mega scale plasma discharges within the Earth's upper atmosphere and surrounding space due to a two orders of magnitude increase in solar activity several millenia ago!!!!. Here's the abstract from his "paper"

Abstract—The discovery that objects from the Neolithic or Early
Bronze Age carry patterns associated with high-current Z-pinches
provides a possible insight into the origin and meaning of these ancient
symbols produced by man. This paper directly compares the
graphical and radiation data from high-current Z-pinches to these
patterns. The paper focuses primarily, but not exclusively, on petroglyphs.
It is found that a great many archaic petroglyphs can be
classified according to plasma stability and instability data. As the
same morphological types are found worldwide, the comparisons
suggest the occurrence of an intense aurora, as might be produced
if the solar wind had increased between one and two orders of magnitude,
millennia ago.
Index Terms—Aurora, high-energy-density plasma, magnetohydrodynamics
(MHD) instabilities, petroglyphs, pictographs, stonehenge,
Z-pinch.
I.

It's titled..."Characteristics for the Occurrence of a High-Current,
Z-Pinch Aurora as Recorded in Antiquity"

Any competent archaeologist, or even solar scientist/space plasma physicist would laugh at the suggestions being made in the paper. Guess where this was published....the IEEE Transaction on Plasma Science. I doubt even most of his colleagues would consider this as being legitimate. If they did, they should take a good look at themselves.

[CraigS]

Just read thru that thread you posted marki.

Get a load of this one (from the thread):
"I also find it useful to dig up mainstream plasma physics papers, relating to research pertinent to the subject of the discussion, to support the EU stuff."

Real-time reverse engineering in progress, folks ... !

Rising above the detail & trenches however, I feel the onslaught of pseudo-science thesedays may be somehow a product of Science teaching's own creation.
From my own experience, I recall feeling miserable and ostracised at school because 'I didn't get it' when it came to Science & Maths. Perhaps it was just me but somehow, I don't think so. Anyway, I kept at it and eventually broke thru this barrier. However, I now realise as an adult, many others didn't succeed in the challenge and they carry a grudge against that which 'ground them down'. What we subsequently see is a 'payback' motivation.

I know all this sounds a bit conspiratorial. However, it is also very much human nature. This motivation when combined with a partially acquired semblance of what Science is really about makes for a pretty aggressive, reactionary and cunning type.

Please excuse my analytical approach to this, but understanding the problem would seem to be the first step to developing a response. I'm not sure what that is but few have succeeded with current approaches.

Onya Carl ... !! ... Cosmology's Rottweiler !! (He'll probably never talk to me again after that one or .. more likely he'll probably throw more reading material at me).


Cheers & Rgds

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by marki

I see you found that thread Carl .

Mark

Oh, I've known about that thread for quite some time. It's one of the tamer ones.

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by CraigS

Just read thru that thread you posted marki.

Get a load of this one (from the thread):
"I also find it useful to dig up mainstream plasma physics papers, relating to research pertinent to the subject of the discussion, to support the EU stuff."

Real-time reverse engineering in progress, folks ... !

Rising above the detail & trenches however, I feel the onslaught of pseudo-science thesedays may be somehow a product of Science teaching's own creation.
From my own experience, I recall feeling miserable and ostracised at school because 'I didn't get it' when it came to Science & Maths. Perhaps it was just me but somehow, I don't think so. Anyway, I kept at it and eventually broke thru this barrier. However, I now realise as an adult, many others didn't succeed in the challenge and they carry a grudge against that which 'ground them down'. What we subsequently see is a 'payback' motivation.

I know all this sounds a bit conspiratorial. However, it is also very much human nature. This motivation when combined with a partially acquired semblance of what Science is really about makes for a pretty aggressive, reactionary and cunning type.

Please excuse my analytical approach to this, but understanding the problem would seem to be the first step to developing a response. I'm not sure what that is but few have succeeded with current approaches.

Onya Carl ... !! ... Cosmology's Rottweiler !! (He'll probably never talk to me again after that one or .. more likely he'll probably throw more reading material at me).


Cheers & Rgds

Woof woof...growl

The reason why people "don't get it" with science is a cultural thing, driven by decades of media nonsense and a general lack of application amongst students in schools. Also, in some cases, poor teachers.

People have been brought up to believe science is some sort of "mad nutters" subject and only weirdos seem to be interested in it. They're also brought up to believe it's too hard to do and only super smart eccentrics are able to understand it. Mostly, it's just laziness on the part of the students. Like all subjects they don't particularly like, or understand, they just don't want to do them. Rather play sport, do art, anything but those subjects that require them to use a little bit of discipline, logic and thought. These days, most kids would rather vegetate in front of a computer screen/playstation or watch some mindless drivel on TV. And they're being catered to by the media and their parents, in fact all even at schools.

No, we should all be mindful of the nonsense and garbage that's going around.

[xelasnave]

You should not let it upset you so much Carl.

As Bert said ask if any folk barking have had a paper published.

If one has a brain one will use it and come to reasonable conclusions so don't worry to much about how fools may influence others.

In the past I would bag big bang and an electric universe both in the one breath but my style is to attack to find truth, to expose my weakness to draw in an opponent to point out why I am wrong ....and that comes from being an ex lawyer not an ex scientist and my background said much about the way I went about things... it always saddened me to upset anyone or not to extend the respect they extended to me... I presented my ideas as a crackpot out of respect for the science I was trying to learn about... mainly so young ones would not be influenced by my off the track notions upon gravity etc.

There will always be folk who think different, act different etc and really it does not matter if they are right or wrong what matters is ones ability not to get upset and let an opposing view annoy you.

As I mentioned in another thread my best mate is a tarot card reader, believes in planet x, 2012 end of the world, various conspiracies etc etc... basically I could argue against any point he makes about anything really.. but I finally think...does it matter... it is his view what does it matter what he thinks it is not my job to re educate folk who believe in magic or god.

One can be concerned that folk with crazy views will influence others and the sad news is that happens all the time but I do not think burning their books is a good idea or trying to control their views.

Look at religion for example..I don't buy it but I live in a country that opens its parliaments with the recognition of a God I do not believe in...what do you do? get upset or simply realize the general premise of the above.

Please focus on stuff worth worrying about and don't push your blood pressure both for this and all the others you will encounter in your life.

best wishes

alex

alex.