The quest for my first telescope (beginner needing advice)

[barx1963 (Malcolm)]

A coupla star parties back i met a fella who was a bit on the tall side. Had his 8" dob sitting on a milk crate. Got it up to his height and was very stable.

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Originally Posted by barx1963

A coupla star parties back i met a fella who was a bit on the tall side. Had his 8" dob sitting on a milk crate. Got it up to his height and was very stable.

Yep, I did this too as I am 204cm, I made up a "crate" using old 4x2 scrap pine in a 30cm:40cm:50cm rectangular box which I can change sides on to provide the optimum height for the focuser on the 12" dob (which is 150cm long/high) so I can basically stand straight up when visually scanning the sky. MUCH better than sitting down and shuffling the chair around all the time.

I am surprised just how good the views are in my new 8" reflector compared to the bigger 12" dob...

Cheers

Chris

[Mountain_Wanderer]

Just been doing a little research...

SkyWatcher 200mm (8") Dobsonian solid tube (model SW680):
- York Optical: $599
- Oz Scopes: $495
- Andrews Communications: couldn't find it on the website


SkyWatcher 200mm (8") Collapsible Dobsonian:
- York Optical: $649 (for a SkyWatcher SWFLEXDOB-8)
- Oz Scopes: $650 (for a SkyWatcher Black Diamond 8" Collabsible - model SKY-FLEXDOB-8)
- Andrews Communications: $499 (for a SkyWatcher FLEX-DOB BD 8")


I'm leaning towards getting a collapsible dobsonian because it is more compact and looks a lot cooler . A few questions though...

I pulled the above information off the respective websites of each shop. For the collapsibe dobsonians I've listed, are these all the exact same SkyWatcher model? They seem to have slightly different model numbers and names??? Would getting one of these SkyWatcher collapsible dobs be a safe purchase? Are they well known and reliable?

Just thinking over the possible accessories I'd need to get. Perhaps someone could give me some advice on what accessories I'd most likely need straight away for the collapsibe dobsonian?

As I see it, I may very weel need to get certain accessories at the same time, being:
- Collimater device (to correct the mirrors before use)
- Light shroud (to keep out stray light)
- Barlow lens (the make everything bigger!)

These things will obviously add up in price and may put me off a bit. Can someone let me know how much these accessories are, and what is a good recommendation for a man on a budget?

Later stuff to buy may well include (???):
- Telgrad finder
- Right angle finder
- Replace the eye pieces for better quality ones
- Crayford focuser
- Camera attachment + lense to help camera focus into eyepiece

Any thoughts?

Well, hope someone can help me out here...

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Hi Jowel,

See my answers below in italics,

Originally Posted by Jowel

Just been doing a little research...

SkyWatcher 200mm (8") Dobsonian solid tube (model SW680):
- York Optical: $599
- Oz Scopes: $495
- Andrews Communications: couldn't find it on the website
Andrews don't sell the solids anymore I don't think... You would only really buy the solid tube 8" if you want to LATER mount it on something like my HEQ5 mount for use in astrophotography as you can't really mount the collapsibles this way. Keep this in mind as its a good idea.

SkyWatcher 200mm (8") Collapsible Dobsonian:
- York Optical: $649 (for a SkyWatcher SWFLEXDOB-8)
- Oz Scopes: $650 (for a SkyWatcher Black Diamond 8" Collabsible - model SKY-FLEXDOB-8)
- Andrews Communications: $499 (for a SkyWatcher FLEX-DOB BD 8")

Yes these are ALL the same thing, just depends on what each store wants to call it.

I'm leaning towards getting a collapsible dobsonian because it is more compact and looks a lot cooler . A few questions though...

I pulled the above information off the respective websites of each shop. For the collapsibe dobsonians I've listed, are these all the exact same SkyWatcher model? They seem to have slightly different model numbers and names??? Would getting one of these SkyWatcher collapsible dobs be a safe purchase? Are they well known and reliable?
Yes and YES, They all come with the Skywatcher's 5 year warranty (SIX years in the case of Andrews!) I have bought my first scope from York (SW135) and then my dob 12" and my BD8" on HEQ5 both from Andrews Comms and can vouch for all three (my preference is for Andrews though)

Just thinking over the possible accessories I'd need to get. Perhaps someone could give me some advice on what accessories I'd most likely need straight away for the collapsibe dobsonian?

As I see it, I may very weel need to get certain accessories at the same time, being:
- Collimater device (to correct the mirrors before use) Yep GSO one (get this at Andrews) ($59)
- Light shroud (to keep out stray light) Not really needed, I dont have one for the 12" as the baffling is bery good.
- Barlow lens (the make everything bigger!) Yep, buy an APO 2.5X GSO one ($49)

These things will obviously add up in price and may put me off a bit. Can someone let me know how much these accessories are, and what is a good recommendation for a man on a budget?

Later stuff to buy may well include (???):
- Telgrad finder (Telrad) - Good idea, but not yet...
- Right angle finder Nope, use the straight through one you get on the scope.
- Replace the eye pieces for better quality ones Eventually - these are easy to get - I prefer the cheaper ED ($49) ones from Andrews which are quite GOOD.
- Crayford focuser it has one already
- Camera attachment + lense to help camera focus into eyepiece Bit hard on the dob to take photos as it doesnt track. Not necessary now.

Any thoughts?

Well, hope someone can help me out here...

SO, in conclusion, my shopping list for you would be:

8" collapsible Skywatcher dob = $499
GSO Laser Collimator = $59
GSO APO 2.5x Barlow = $49 ( I have one and they are great)
Planisphere (round disc thing which helps you find stars, objects and planets at ANY time of the year) large = $15
Total for collapsible = $622

IF you want the flexibility of connecting the tube to a tracking mount in 12-24 months time when you want to start Astrophotography then a solid tube is your choice there. These are $495 at Ozscopes like you said. So the total would be $4 less = $618. Check with Andrews to see if they can get a 8" solid tube though....

Hope this helps. Like I said, my preferred shopping location is Andrews (they are near me) and I have bought a lot of gear from them and they are always helpful and friendly and Luke (optical manager) and Lee (owner) have been great to deal with. I have only ever had an issue with some binoculars which were out of collimation and they changed these over for me with no questions or complications. They are in Greystanes so easy to get to for you from the Blue Mountains down the M4 and get off at the Reservoir Road exit and then use Great Western Highway to Greystanes Road. Then turn left at the first set of lights and they are in the shopping centre on the right next to the hairdresser. (not open on Sundays though)

I dont have any affiliation with them in any way, just a satisfied customer recommending an excellent business who have great prices and products and are a pleasure to deal with.

Cheers

Chris

[seeker372011 (Narayan)]

jowel
the western sydney amateur astronomy group observes from Linden observatory in the Mountains around twice every month

if your money is not burning a hole through your pocket, maybe you should wait for our next observing night, and look through a telescope or five before you spend

narayan

[seeker372011 (Narayan)]

and do you have an Iphone? some pretty good astronomy aps are available to help you track down objects. ..makes planispheres obsolete IMHO

also if you can get hold of a book like Turn left at Orion-may be available in your library or they may be able to get it for you, to get an idea of targets
and answer the question now I have a scope, what am I going to do with it

best ever beginner's book , though Northern Hemisphere slanted (just turn the maps upside down)

PS if you cant wait then follow the good advice you have been provided by Chris and bring your scope to Linden so someone can help show you the ropes

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Originally Posted by seeker372011

jowel
the western sydney amateur astronomy group observes from Linden observatory in the Mountains around twice every month

if your money is not burning a hole through your pocket, maybe you should wait for our next observing night, and look through a telescope or five before you spend

narayan

EXCELLENT point Narayan (hey, he is a club member like me). If you want Jowel, come to Linden next observing night (Sat Aug 7th), and I can show you my collapsible dob and my HEQ5 and BD 200 (same kind of aperture tube you will get on the 8" collapsible/solid) and you can see the view through each. I have the other bits and pieces I mentioned too so you can try before you buy. There is also a club meeting on at UWS Nepean observatory in Kingswood next Wednesday at 7:30pm so if you are interested, you can come along to that and talk to club members and see some scopes in action (I might bring mine along there also)

I will be the VERY tall guy so you wont be able to miss me in the dark - We are also a friendly bunch of people so it will be a good night to come along

Cheers

Chris

[Mountain_Wanderer]

Screwdriverone (Chris), thanks heaps for this advice!

[Mountain_Wanderer]

With the light shroud, I've read that some people need them? Chris, do you only use your telescope in very dark locations or also when there's street lights around? Because yours is a 12", would that mean there's less need for a shroud compared to an 8"? If you had to get a shroud, what would you get?

What are the indicators that stray light is entering the telescope?

Also, is is possible to make a shroud?

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Originally Posted by Jowel

With the light shroud, I've read that some people need them? Chris, do you only use your telescope in very dark locations or also when there's street lights around? Because yours is a 12", would that mean there's less need for a shroud compared to an 8"? If you had to get a shroud, what would you get?

What are the indicators that stray light is entering the telescope?

Also, is is possible to make a shroud?

Hi Jowel,

I wouldnt worry about it just yet, yes you can make your own, several here have made them with elasticised fabric and support bars. I use my telescope out the back (suburban - with no direct street lights messing things up) and at Linden (DARK) and have never really seen any stray light unless I set up on the front lawn and the street light across the road gets onto the secondary which makes it flare up like a car's headlights through a rainy windscreen.

As there are a few, I would look for the cheapest one if you were set on getting one, they will improve contrast slightly or block side light from reflecting down the tube if you have street lights where you are going to observe from.

Wait a while until you encounter it and then buy one.

Cheers

Chris

[Mountain_Wanderer]

Thanks mate. And just another question...

If I were to connect a camera to the eyepiece would I be able to do some decent photos? I understand that to do sper-duper astrophotography you need an equatorial mount to track the object. However, if I were to take simple photos of the moon and planets etc which don't require any sort of tracking, would this be relatively straight forward to do with the dobsonian?

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Hi Jowel,

Two (or more) ways to do this.

With a DSLR camera (or any other camera with a T Ring adaptor) you can unscrew the 1.25" barrel on the focuser to allow the T ring to screw straight onto the focuser and then can snap away for shots which you can hand guide (this is done by you pushing) by looking through the finderscope. The Skywatcher Crayford focusers should all be able to do this. My two certainly can.

If you get a modified webcam like my Philips Toucam 640, it has an eyepiece adaptor which slides into the focuser and this can then take videos of planets as AVI files which you can split up and stack (see Mike Salway's article on the website on how he does it) to create nice planet shots.

Otherwise, there is a camera adapter which clamps onto the eyepiece which allows you to do Afocal photography by taking a picture of what you see through the eyepiece. This is the simplest method and can use point and shoot digital cameras (where I started). The adapters cost about $40-$50. You can also get an eyepiece projection adaptor which you slide an eyepiece into and then attach a camera to, this costs about the same as the Afocal adapter.

The CHEAPEST way is to simply hold your camera up to the eyepiece and take a photo. Not as stable or reliable as the above, but still doable.

Cheers

Chris

[Mountain_Wanderer]

I've been thinking about the possibility of needing a light shroud lately...

I think it would prove useful in certain situations and would be great to have on stand-by anyway.

So, I've been trying to find where I could get one but so far havn't had much luck. Can anyone point me in the right direction? What sort of price are they and are there good recommendations?

[erick (Eric)]

I suggest that you just rough up your own design from some dark nylon material to get started. Nylon, or something that is fairly tight weave (stop light getting through) and will resist water (you don't want it soaked with dew and dripping water).

Purpose:-

1. Stop stray light getting into your light path
2. Reduce dew formation on your primary mirror
3. Prevent dropped things (eyepieces - yikes! torches, glasses, drinks!) falling on the mirror!!

Just make sure that it doesn't collapse into the light path - but it would have to collapse in a big way to really cause problems.

[Mountain_Wanderer]

Thanks Erick. So many people are saying to make one. But really, I'm a novice. Can't I just buy one and be done with it?!

Where can I get one?

[erick (Eric)]

Won't cost much to ship from overseas:-

http://www.optcorp.com/category.aspx?uid=105-296-302

http://www.teeterstelescopes.com/shrouds/

http://www.jimsmobile.com/buy_light_shrouds.htm

In Oz:-

Bintel sell a Meade 8" Lightbridge shroud for $55

[Brian W (Brian)]

Hi Jowel, just a couple of things to consider...
(1) astronomy is a lot like amateur radio in that with the best of equipment atmospherics are still going to rule your observing.

(2) there is no perfect telescope.

(3) there are really great telescopes for many different aspects of astronomy and the secret is to start simple and move into the area that grabs you.

(4) I love my 8" LB not because it is the worlds greatest telescope but because it answers my needs for my type of observing.

(5) read all of the above with large grains of salt cause it is only my opinions and I, as she who must be obeyed reminds me, am many times wrong.
Brian

[Mountain_Wanderer]

G'day again...

I woke up thismorning feeling that perhaps getting a solid tube is the best way to go, given that there's the option to later on buy an equatorial mount and therefore get some decent astrophotography done.

How good is an 8 inch newtonian telescope on an equatorial mount for astrophotography? Does anyone have astrophotography experience with a telescope this size? Is it decent or is it a significant shortcoming?

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Hi Jowel,

I have an 8 inch Skywatcher Black Diamond reflector (solid tube) on an HEQ5. Still has the new scope smell as I only bought it two weeks ago.

Check out my first attempts at Astrophotography in the Beginner's Astrophotography forum here.

You will see pics of M8 - the Lagoon Nebula, M20 - Trifid Nebula and M22 - Globular Cluster, all taken with a Canon 1000D DSLR (about $900 now) which was screwed onto the focuser with a T- Ring adaptor.

No guiding used (that's coming later), no fancy control, just the mount aligned and a handful of 30 second exposures stacked to provide better data.

Whilst I have done a bit of capture of planets with a webcam, this was my first red hot go with a proper mount and capable scope for deep sky stuff, take a look and see the results of me starting out. Not in the big leagues yet as this takes a LOT of practice, but I am quietly pleased with the results from only 1-2 hours of playing in the back yard in Suburban North West Sydney.

If you go for the solid tube Dob, then yes, putting this on say an HEQ5 later will be a doddle and you are on your way.....

Cheers

Chris

[Mountain_Wanderer]

Chris, that's bloody awesome!

What about planets? For instance, how big is Jupiter in an 8 inch scope? Got any pics? If not, know where I can view some pics to get an idea of what a planet looks like in an 8 incher?