Tax Time, Help me Obi Wan Kenobi(s) you are my only hope...

[RB (Andrew)]

Chris whatever you decide on, let me know and I'll give you a hand talking down the price.

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Thanks Dave,

Not too sure if I would handle ANOTHER reflector, the two I own have kept me busy with collimation in the past, I like the appeal of a refractor and a 100mm is mid range for what I hope to achieve...

From what I can see, maybe the Ioptron A hasnt got the juice to handle a long 900mm scope such as the ED100?? even if you use the Orion Atlas extension for about $75 bucks.

So, the alternative maybe an EQ5Pro ($899) which can handle 11Kg and doesnt have the issues of the clearance on the tripod like the Ioptron does, is a better place to start?

Obviously, keeping the eye on the second hand ones that come up is preferable to keep the cost down.

Thanks Eliminator, if I am buying new, I will definitely look you up to see if I can get you to make them "an offer they can't refuse....." Thanks for the offer. I appreciate it.

Cheers

Chris

[davewaldo]

Sounds good Chris, you have a nice bit of cash there. I think 2nd hand certainly is the best way to go if you're happy to wait.

The ED100 would be a great scope on a HEQ5, and these mounts come up second hand quite often (not many ED100's around though). From what I've seen around the place lots of people that buy anything less than a HEQ5 often end up upgrading quite soon, whereas many people stay satisfied with the HEQ5 for many years (me being one of them). If you really want to do astrophotography at or near 1000mm focal length I think the HEQ5 is the minimum mount you should consider.

I seem to remember there being a great thread on this site regarding a comparison between the ED80 and ED100 (might have to do a search)... I seem to remember the general consensus was that the ED80 was almost as good for imaging (better for some things) but substantially cheaper than the ED100. Also there is very good info and support regarding the ED80 (reducers, flatteners, focusers, how to get the most out of it etc). The ED80 seem to come up 2nd hand far more often too.... Any reason you prefer the 100 over the 80?

Just my 2 cents

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Hi Dave,

Hmmm, ED100 over ED80 - one reason of course!!! APERTURE!!!!

Everyone seems to have at least a 127mm refractor per se.

How about this one? Special package at Andrews...

NEW! 100ED 100mm f/9 ED Black Diamond refractor and EQ5PRO SynScan equatorial mount (white). Complete package $1899.00??

Maybe if I substituted the Pro ED100 (which is $100 cheaper) then it would be $1799.

Otherwise if I got an EQ5 Pro for $899 (11kg capacity) , I might then look around for a second hand ED scope in the $600-800 range. Keeps me within the $1500 area....

Damn, wish I was poor, its easier....

Cheers

Chris

[davewaldo]

hehe... poor is not easier

There is a big difference between the EQ5PRO white and the HEQ5pro white.

I'm not sure the EQ5 could handle 11kg for photographic work. Most people think that around 11kg is the limit for the HEQ5 so I would think the eq5 would be more like 8kg.

Andrews have the HEQ5 for $1100, and the ED80 (OTA & dovetail only) for $599 at bintel... All up $1700, would that be pushing it if you sold some old stuff? ED80's often go for around $400 or less 2nd hand which would be $1500 bang on.

Or I have seen HEQ5's with goto sell for $700 or less on this site, then you could afford the ED100!

Its fun going over all the possibilities of new gear! One thing though, don't rush the decision.

Dave.

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Thanks Dave,

How about the fact that I should only really have the ED100 and maybe a DSLR on it? Surely that isnt going to be anywhere NEAR 8 or 11kg?

I am not guiding (yet) but the ED100 is listed at 3kg for the tube weight, shouldnt there be capacity to spare?

Or am I missing something like efficiency of tracking etc if its too close to the load limit?

Thanks

Chris

[davewaldo]

Yeah, there is a lot more to a mount than carry capacity. The HEQ5 will be a better all round mount, especially if you don't plan to get into guiding any time soon. The heq5 should allow 30sec-1min exposures unguided if you're lucky, the eq5 would struggle to do this. If you already have a toucam I doubt it will be long before you get into guiding and I honestly think the HEQ5 will be better for imaging in both short and long term. And as for a guidescope... many people are having success with finderscopes as guidescopes!

Does the eq5 even have a guide port?

[mldee (Mike)]

Originally Posted by davewaldo

Yeah, there is a lot more to a mount than carry capacity. The HEQ5 will be a better all round mount, especially if you don't plan to get into guiding any time soon. The heq5 should allow 30sec-1min exposures unguided if you're lucky, the eq5 would struggle to do this. If you already have a toucam I doubt it will be long before you get into guiding and I honestly think the HEQ5 will be better for imaging in both short and long term. And as for a guidescope... many people are having success with finderscopes as guidescopes!

Does the eq5 even have a guide port?

The EQ5Pro does have a guideport on the Synscan controller although EQMOD will get you around that if you want. I recently sold mine. It was a good mount, but struggled with my 8" f6 newt dob which was my first "real scope".

Chris, you won't regret spending the extra on an HEQ5.

Appreciate your aversion to reflectors, but whenever I look though my images, especially the earlier ones, I'm always struck by the high quality of the f5 newt pics. Beat my SCT pics hands down. Throw an MPCC on it and you have a very fast and flat imager at around half the price of a ED100 if you shop around on IIS etc. Twice as fast and not much heavier too. But yep, it is physically bigger.....

The only drawback being price and the "open tube", although an 8" is absolutely simple to collimate and maintain.

To sum it all up, as one who has owned an EQ5Pro, a SW BD100, a 135 reflector and a 1000d, unless you have a bad (lifting) back or such, or want to do comfortable viewing, a basic newt is super for imaging. I will keep my 1000d, newt+MPCC and EQ6 for a long time. The 5 and the BD100 are both sold. Bang for the buck, you can't beat an f5 newt and an HEQ5 for startout imaging in my book. Why so strong on the newt over a nice ED80 (I now have one of those too...) Because as you say: Aperture and cost rule!

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Thanks Mike and Dave,

Sounds like I can learn from your experience Mike, spooky that you have had ALL of the items I have or am thinking of....

I forgot about the 8 inch reflector on the EQ mount, substantially lower cost, obviously the bigger aperture would give more details etc against the relative complications of collimation and tube cooling.

Now, there are some Black Diamond 8 inch and 10 inch on HEQ5 pros for $1349 and $1549 respectively, not sure if the 10 inch would be too much for the 14kg rated on the HEQ5?

The age old question of do I then go to the EQ6 for $1599? (with 10 inch BD for $2149???

I suppose I should ask the question of the pros of an ED100 over a 8-10 inch reflector (if any)

I suppose right now, my instinct would be for the BD250 10 inch on the HEQ5 Pro for $1549. Right on the money and then (because the missus said I can go to $2K if needed - woohoo) some change left over for say an MPCC? (or something else perhaps, like a small guidescope for the Toucam) This would mean using the 1000D as the primary camera for AP and the Toucam as the guider with a cheap 80mm or even the SW135 (although its F7) as the guidescope? Or even a DBK21 for imaging? Atik 16ic is $549 too???

Oh man, the questions just keep coming....

Sorry.

Chris

[davewaldo]

Originally Posted by Screwdriverone

I forgot about the 8 inch reflector on the EQ mount,

That was my recomendation in my first post (see post #20). And Mike's from post #11

Check out RobF's images. He uses the 8" f5 newt on HEQ5 and gets great images.

The 10" is WAY too big for the HEQ5 and would certainly need the EQ6.

8" f5 + HEQ5 plus money for accessories would be the way I would go. You'll need an MPCC ($300) and either a new focuser or have an adapter machined for you.

As for a guide scope... aperture is not real important but weight is. A very cheap 60-80mm plastic telescope would be perfectly fine. You can probably even use your guidescope with the toucam.

This would be a VERY nice setup for astrophotography and would also give very good visual views too!

Dave.

[bmitchell82 (Brendan)]

hey Chris, the heq5 wont take a 10" tube. not a hope in hell if your looking to get decent images.

Using a 254mm newt you will need the eq6 as a bare minimum, look on my photo page for pictures with a eq6 + 254 + 40d if you want to know what you can do. Do remember though that the 10" dob is not made for photography nor is their GEM version. To make it into a good 10" tuned for astrophotography you will have to do a little bit of work to it.

Jump on the ATM forum and find my 10" SW dob ----> 254 Astrograph, that will give you a fair idea of whats happening and what is kind of needed to make the beast sing.

[jjjnettie (Jeanette)]

The advantage of a refractor is that there are no diffraction spikes to line up if you are taking exposures over multiple nights.
Don't forget about dew control for the objectives of your finder, imaging scope and guide scope.

[mldee (Mike)]

If you can get a new BD 8" on an HEQ5 for $1349, I'd go for it. Since it's new, it would have at least a 1000d-capable Crayford focusser and a finderscope (there's half your guiding system!) and with your electric focusser bolting straight on to the Crayford, you'd be cookin' with gaz with your 1000d! Use the balance of the $2K you save to buy an MPCC and a good LPAS filter. They're both good long term investments too.

Check Peter Tan http://www.tan14.com/gears.htm for filters, etc.

As Brendan says, a 10" jumps you up a level in cost, collimation and size. If you get a serious case of aperture fever from your 8" joys, you can sell it in an instant later to buy your fancy 10"

Check that the BD 8" is the 1000mm f5, (shorter and faster) and not the dob 1200mm f6. ( I sold my f6 dob and got the BD f5 used from your expert jjjnettie who lives close by, never regretted it.

[mldee (Mike)]

Originally Posted by jjjnettie

The advantage of a refractor is that there are no diffraction spikes to line up if you are taking exposures over multiple nights.
Don't forget about dew control for the objectives of your finder, imaging scope and guide scope.

I thought you added them later (The spikes...)

[Barrykgerdes]

Hi Chris

You seem to be getting plenty of suggestions on how to spend (some of my money?). I think you should save it to help defray the rise car rego, electric, gas, council rates etc that we are going to get this year.

Baz

[bmitchell82 (Brendan)]

party pooper!

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Thank you to Mike, Brendan, Barry (I pay taxes too ), Jeanette and Dave for your responses.

OK then, it seems from all this fabulous advice is the 8" BD on the Heq5 is a good place to start, especially (for $1349) when there is some serious change left over for some other goodies/necessities like an MPCC and dew control of some sort and maybe a power tank + inverter for the laptop

Question is, is the refractor idea dead? HEQ5 with ED100 any good for visual if the mood takes me (compared obviously to the 12" it wouldnt be much chop)? Otherwise I would say that the multipurpose 8" on the Heq5 would probably satisfy my visual AND AP needs moving forward and I could possibly offload both other scopes at some stage down the track to fund the slippery slope if the bug bites hard.

Sound reasonable?

Cheers

Chris

[mldee (Mike)]

Go for it. Keep your eye out for a good used refractor when you have some spare change. A good fixed FL Canon camera used lens from Ebay on your 1000d will also do wonders for some low cost widefield work, piggy backed on the HEQ5.

Goodluck

[gregbradley]

I agree, an F5 8 inch Newt with a corrector would be better for imaging than an F9 100mm refractor. F9 is quite slow. F5 is a great F ratio to image with. You'll get bright widefield images quickly. You can also barlow to take it to F8 and more zoomed in for visual or galaxy imaging.
8 inches is a decent amount of aperture.

What about the 8 inch GSO RCs? There are plenty of great images coming out of those. They are biggest bang for your imaging buck currently.

Newt images though I agree are often very pleasing and usually have very tight star profiles. F5 is also quite forgiving for tracking so you'll be able to get nice images with moderately accurate tracking.

Greg.

[bmitchell82 (Brendan)]

I agree with the price being good with the mount and all a nice little 8" will do the world of wonders when it comes to photography.

with the left over do yourself a huge favor and get a motorized moonlight focuser, trust me on that one you will save yourself A LOT OF GRIEF, and make the over all astrophotography experience more enjoyable!

with the focuser

325 with the rigel hand controller www.focuser.com
200 for the MPCC from www.tan14.com

There will be a few bob left over for the other bits and pieces (you do have a guide camera yes?)