Canon TC-80N3 Remote

[Octane (Humayun)]

Dennis,

Still with you, 100%

No-one in this thread with the authentic Canon hardware has made a complaint (unless I've missed one) about the timer remote not working correctly, or dying on them, etc.

H

[bojan]

And that is worth 5x the price.. ?
I mean, 5 cheaper ones will DEFINITELY last longer than one single "original".

Originally Posted by Octane

Dennis,

Still with you, 100%

No-one in this thread with the authentic Canon hardware has made a complaint (unless I've missed one) about the timer remote not working correctly, or dying on them, etc.

H

[leon]

Mate if you want quality you pay i have two Canon remotes and they just do not let me down, yet I agree, expensive, but will last a life time, you get what you pay for.

leon

[bojan]

But mate, I can say the same for my $37 Aputure :-)

And I can use the rest of the $140 budget for something more important.. ..

[Dennis]

I think that when we make discretionary purchases for our hobbies, a whole range of factors come in to play and I do respect the choices of others.

Price is indeed one factor and a very important one at that, as is how we will use it, how it performs and “feels”, how often we use it, criticality, ease of purchase, support & service (if its not a throw away item!), etc.

Whilst there is no absolute certainty that a Canon product is guaranteed to last a life time and a non-Canon product is doomed to early failure, in my experience, unless you can design and build something yourself to a known standard and capability, I have found that products from organisations such as Canon seem to have a more defined quality and performance capability.

For those products that I choose to buy which are critical to the enjoyment of my hobby, I will look at non OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) products seriously and try to make sure that I am comparing apples to apples before I purchase a 3rd party product over an original one.

Certainly the OEM’s like to play the fear, uncertainty and doubt card against 3rd party products but then again, with Forums such as Ice In Space, these discussions should assist members in making a purchasing decision more suited to their own needs.

Cheers

Dennis.

[Octane (Humayun)]

Bojan,

My opinion: it is worth 5x the price.

I'll happily pay it. I am not the type to skimp on any gear that as Dennis mentions, is critical to the enjoyment of my hobby, or something which makes me some money from a job.

If the alternative works for you, then great!

H

[bojan]

H,
yes, alternative works, that's for sure, and it works well, and not only for me.

There is one big difference between you and most of others here - you are professional photographer, and I fully understand your professional attitude.
As a professional electronics engineer myself, I also want and I do use the best available equipment I can get hold of (and it is very expensive, trust me) .
The price paid for the equipment is then passed on to customers.
Further, equipment to be used for business is an investment, and is also tax deductible, while gadgets that amateurs use are not. And we (amateurs) do not have customers :-)

That is the main reason why I insist on "good enough equipment" approach when hobby is concerned.

Since most of people on this forum are just amateurs (like me), I strongly believe they should be told about alternative and cheaper ways - how to get more bang for a buck, in other words.

Of course , sometimes the cost can not be compromised (like in optics).. so it is better to spend hard earned money where it really must be spend because there is no alternative .. like plastic lenses etc.

[acropolite (Phil)]

I'm like Dennis, I like to buy genuine whenever I can and this extends to most of my purchases, however, I too bought the knockoff timer remote, the original chinese battery was flat in weeks, I replaced it and no problems 12 months on. I haven't had the chance to use the original Canon model but I'm very impressed with the knockoff.

[davewaldo]

Can these timers be used when the camera is tethered to a laptop?

ie. Can you set it to take a bunch of 5 minute frames and they will automatically download to the PC?

Cheers

[rogerg (Roger)]

For me I like to buy genuine but price factors in to it. It's a blury line. In general I would be on Dennis and H's side of the midde line.

With this cable release I thought being 1/6th the cost it was worth a shot at the cheapie fully realising I might lose the $30, as it was only about $30 it was worth the risk. But having had one failure, it's not worth a second one to me, it's back to the genuine article in this particular case.

I've also realised just how useful this particular piece of equipment is ... previously I'd always just had a single button cable release

[h0ughy (David)]

i have 4 cable releases - 2 apature ones a onther chinese brand and a canon - all work well for both the 20D's and the 350d's. the 350D one also works with the pentax K10D - i have a mix of AAA and Cr2032. yeah you pay for what your get - mine have had a hard life LOL well and truely used. I have had one lemon - a apature one. the newer chinese one i bought allows me to get 999 shots - good for timelapsing

[luigi]

I have two of the cheap ones for different cameras. The oldest is 3 years old and the other 2 years old. Never had a single problem with them. I don't think the remote is critical enough to pay for the Canon word on top of the plastic.

[bojan]

Originally Posted by davewaldo

Can these timers be used when the camera is tethered to a laptop?
ie. Can you set it to take a bunch of 5 minute frames and they will automatically download to the PC?
Cheers

Yes, it can.
I was using it with FocusAssist (http://www.xmission.com/~jstanley/focusassist/), and it downloaded both jpg (recognised and displayed on the screen by this software) and CR2 file.

However, I would not recommend this method, because:
- if you have laptop connected already , then you should use one of the software timers (like Canon's utility).
- USB cable, connected to camera while exposing and downloading the images was reported to cause noise, visible on the images (I noticed the slightly increased noise floor in form of banding).

BTW, the whole purpose of those little gadgets is to AVOID the necessity of having laptop in the field..

[bojan]

Originally Posted by luigi

I have two of the cheap ones for different cameras. The oldest is 3 years old and the other 2 years old. Never had a single problem with them. I don't think the remote is critical enough to pay for the Canon word on top of the plastic.

That is not a surprise.
Both original Canon timer and those non-OEM 's are assembled in the same plant in China, with the same technology and using the same components (OK, maybe not exactly the same plant.. but you know what I mean :-) ).

The reasons why Canon's timer apparently does not have bad reports (and this statement should be properly backed with data) could be one or combination the following:
- There are not many of "originals" out there (because of the high price) compared to cheap ones, so according to simple statistical logic, there will be more complains for cheap ones.
- For cheap ones there is no warranty (but, for the price, who cares!) so people tend to complain.
- Most problems (90% I would say) with electronic gadgets in general are dodgy batteries and associated mechanism (contacts). This is the reason why many vendors never include batteries with their products.. and if they do, those will most likely be the cheap ones (you guessed right, in both cases they want to reduce the cost)

[Dennis]

Originally Posted by bojan

Both original Canon timer and those non-OEM 's are assembled in the same plant in China, with the same technology and using the same components (OK, maybe not exactly the same plant.. but you know what I mean :-) ).

If this is a serious statement, then I think that you should qualify it by explaining how you know, as opposed to believe, that this is the case.

I have worked in electronic and electro-mechanical industries that do their designs in-house, but sub contract component procurement, assembly, testing and packaging, etc. to 3rd party assembly plants BUT they also specified, in detail, which components went into their products, types of wiring used, thickness of contact plating, who is approved to supply those components, how the final assemblies will be tested, etc.

It wasn’t just a case of “assemble 10,000” and then “right at the end we’ll stamp the 1st 5,000 with Canon and the last 5,000 with a generic name”.

Cheers

Dennis

[adman (Adam)]

The best way to figure out the quality of an item is to see which one people would pick if either:

1. Money were no object
2. The prices were the same.

I certainly know which one I would go for in this case.

Adam

[bojan]

Of course it is a (semi) serious statement and of course, you are right in terms of manufacturing specifications for parts and assembly of products and how subcontracting is done and why (and it is always and only done to reduce the manufacturing cost).

However, let me clarify a bit further:
By "same components" I meant the components - namely micro-controllers, LCD's, keypads.. all those things that go into commercial products today are of very similar, industrial quality - except components used specifically for life support and/or military applications - they are all designed with this end application in mind, then individually 100% tested with traceable record and therefore 10x more expensive (and we are not talking about this here).
So my statement about "same" is based on knowledge of what is available on the market today for usual, everyday, consumer appliances.

I do not have a specific knowledge of Canon electronics products.. including this timer.
But, I still consider myself qualified to make general statements about their electronics products here... from the user and bystander point of view.
Canon's timer is made of usual materials - plastic case, standard PCB, standard parts, plastic cable with moulded connector.. and 5x price difference between this and cheaper product which is otherwise the same (or very similar) in both appearance and functionality simply does not go under my hat. Someone here doesn't have a right price...

But, at the end of the day, everyone makes his/hers own decision on how to spend their money.

clear skies,
Bojan

Originally Posted by Dennis

If this is a serious statement, then I think that you should qualify it by explaining how you know, as opposed to believe, that this is the case.

I have worked in electronic and electro-mechanical industries that do their designs in-house, but sub contract component procurement, assembly, testing and packaging, etc. to 3rd party assembly plants BUT they also specified, in detail, which components went into their products, types of wiring used, thickness of contact plating, who is approved to supply those components, how the final assemblies will be tested, etc.

It wasn’t just a case of “assemble 10,000” and then “right at the end we’ll stamp the 1st 5,000 with Canon and the last 5,000 with a generic name”.

Cheers

Dennis

Adam,
The quality of an item is not determined by which one would have been picked up if price is the same..
It can be determined very accurately by observing the failure rate over the prolonged period of time in use, under the controlled conditions.. and this information is what we do not have here, for neither of those two product we are discussing in this thread.

[Harpspitfire]

i bought an ebay junker myself about a year ago- still works like new and no issues!

[adman (Adam)]

Originally Posted by bojan

Adam,
The quality of an item is not determined by which one would have been picked up if price is the same..

Thats right. As consumers, all we have to rely on are reviews of the product, and our own gut feeling when we pick it up to look at it and feel it. My point was that if you were in a store, and there were two timers sitting side by side, one genuine canon and the other a generic brand, for identical prices, I think that most would go for the canon one.

When you are building a brand like Canon, part of that image is the actual quality of your products, which some of your customers will know by prior experience but probably the biggest part of the brand is its perceived quality, and that warm fuzzy feeling you get when you buy the genuine article. People pay a lot for warm fuzzies.

Originally Posted by bojan

It can be determined very accurately by observing the failure rate over the prolonged period of time in use, under the controlled conditions.. and this information is what we do not have here, for neither of those two product we are discussing in this thread.

Now, if we don't have access to this information (which as consumers we clearly don't) then how can you be so sure that the Canon one isn't worth its price .

Without that information it just boils down to peoples individual judgement on quality and their tolerance for the price which is an argument nobody is going to win.

Adam

[Dennis]

Quality has many dimensions. One can be defined as “fitness for purpose” and clearly in Roger’s case, something here was not fit for the purpose, as his unit failed prematurely, in the field, at the worst possible time.

It might be the case that the Canon TC-80N3 and the generic brands are “the same” in terms of their mechanical, electrical and functional properties (assumption here), but people may choose the Canon brand because of some perceived and/or real extra value.

I know that a Ford or Holden will get me safely, reliably and comfortably from Sydney to Brisbane, but if I had the choice, I’d much prefer to make the trip in a Ferrari. Ford, Holden and Ferrari are all quality cars in that they are built to a defined standard, priced accordingly, fit for the purpose intended, reliable, etc but the experience of owning the Ferrari is something else!

Hopefully Roger hasn’t become too alarmed with this particular route that his original post has deviated down!

Cheers

Dennis