More pollution in China

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by Louwai

I agree Mark,
I have been in the office of manufacturers in China.
As soon as they hear I'm from Australia they are not interested.

their comment -
"Australia has a small population, not a big enough market. We are not interested in your business".

Problem with that, Bryan, is that although Australia may have a small population, we're the world's 13-14th largest economy. We are not minnows, not by a long way and if we were to get narky about it, we could cause quite a few countries any amount of hurt. China would be in the proverbial outhouse if we decided not to trade with them. There are plenty of ready markets for our raw materials. We'd just go elsewhere. You may find that they say what they said to your face, but behind the scenes, they'd be interested. Money's money and if they can make a quick buck they'll sell anywhere they need to. Small market or not. If we weren't a big enough market to sell to, then we'd have hardly anything coming to this country.

[solissydney (Ken)]

Why pick on China. Let us clean up our own backyard first.
Australia emits 20 Tonnes of pollution per capita. China 5 Tonnes.
Ken

[TrevorW]

Ken wheres your math

thats Aust 400 million tonnes
China 5000 billion tonnes

no comparison

China is unregulated pollution is rampant nearly 50 % of the worlds manufactured goods come our of China

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/20...8_101663.shtml

[TrevorW]

and will only get worse as the population of china becomes more affluent (not effluent)

[fringe_dweller]

I know it could easily be a co-incidence, and a bit kooky to say the least, long bow ect. but a massive co-incidence, but I cant help find it interesting how as China's economic growth/industrialisation/urbanisation ramped up in last 10-15 years - we simultaneously have the mother of all droughts/kooky weather, a matching graph overlaid over that period would be interesting

i'm not agin or for either, i am all for china doing its thing, its like polly wants a cracker.... NOW! as if it matters what i think ahahah

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

Ken wheres your math

thats Aust 400 million tonnes
China 5000 billion tonnes

no comparison

China is unregulated pollution is rampant nearly 50 % of the worlds manufactured goods come our of China

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/20...8_101663.shtml

Not only that, but out of 1.3 billion people, 750-800 million still live in rural areas, so if China had the same % living in urban areas as we do, how much more pollution would it put out. It'd be an unmitigated disaster....it's bad enough already.

[renormalised (Carl)]

its like polly wants a cracker

They make a lot of those

[fringe_dweller]

Originally Posted by renormalised

They make a lot of those

hehe

[Paul Haese]

No doubt China has its pollution problems just as we do. 25 years ago the Hawskbury was toxic. We still have problems with pollution, so waving the red flag at another country is not fair when we are not squeeky clean. The Chinese are working hard to get it right every where but with 1.1 billion people lots of things slip through the cracks. Give them 20 years and they will have it sorted. I find it humorous how the west often expects developing nations to conform immediately when we have had over 100 years to come up to standard. I will not be boycotting Chinese products, I think they need a fair go to be honest and that is what Aussies are supposedly known for. Perhaps not anymore.

Incidently Synta is Chinese not Taiwanese. When in China this year I went to the Skywatcher - Synta factory in Suzhou.

[TrevorW]

Paul unfortunately it probably ain't going to happen not in a 100 years

and I don't think anyone was advocating boycotting Chinese products

because where else would we get them

[casstony]

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

No doubt China has its pollution problems just as we do.
.

Paul, you obviously did not look at the images and read the text. There are magnitudes of difference between pollution in Australia and the pollution levels presented in that link. Your post adds insult to the injury the people are experiencing in those images.

[Paul Haese]

Originally Posted by casstony

Paul, you obviously did not look at the images and read the text. There are magnitudes of difference between pollution in Australia and the pollution levels presented in that link. Your post adds insult to the injury the people are experiencing in those images.

Actually I did look at the images and read the text. You are assuming too much. From an evidentary point of view the images could have been taken at anytime in the last 10-15 years, nor is it this wide spread in China. We went through rural sections and built up cities and while some mayhem is present I did not see anything on this level and that was through 5 major cities.

Yes proportionally China would have greater pollution but by standing where you are and pointing the finger when you have the benefit of living in a society which has radically changed its policy to the environment is in my opinion a bit stiff. Technology transfers don't happen to expect developing nations to catch up quickly. Marralinga is still not totally clean in our country and that has been terribily irradiated. This is just one of numerous examples of polluted land on our continent.

[stephenb (Stephen)]

The price on mass consumerism?

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

Actually I did look at the images and read the text. You are assuming too much. From an evidentary point of view the images could have been taken at anytime in the last 10-15 years, nor is it this wide spread in China. We went through rural sections and built up cities and while some mayhem is present I did not see anything on this level and that was through 5 major cities.

Yes proportionally China would have greater pollution but by standing where you are and pointing the finger when you have the benefit of living in a society which has radically changed its policy to the environment is in my opinion a bit stiff. Technology transfers don't happen to expect developing nations to catch up quickly. Marralinga is still not totally clean in our country and that has been terribily irradiated. This is just one of numerous examples of polluted land on our continent.

You can't say that those pics may or may not have been taken in the last 10-15 years as you have no evidence at all to prove that. If those photos state they were taken when they were, then until you could prove otherwise, that's when they were taken. Which means this sort of environmental degradation is ongoing, and even if they were taken then, it most likely still is. Just because you never saw anything like that doesn't mean it's not occurring, or that it's not widespread. Just means you never saw it, or weren't allowed to.

Yes, we do have our own problems, but nowhere near that scale of pollution. I can tell you now that Maralinga compared to Lop Nor in NW China is spotless. It may have parts which are still quite irradiated and not all that safe to enter on a permanent basis, but areas within the Lop Nor area are so irradiated even the guys testing nukes there can't go into them, for any length of time.

Just because we have our own problems, doesn't mean when we see problems like this, that we can't then point out just how bad the situation there might be, or to say something to the Chinese about it. That maybe pointing the finger but we have every right to do so...at least we're making attempts to do something and have changed our policies. If that sort of thing is occurring in China (or any other country) then all we're getting from them on this matter (and it will eventually affect us all) is a mouthing of platitudes and very little action being taken at all to remedy it. Or what action is being taken is ineffectual because of the endemic corruption in their political system and industrial practices. Having little or no environmental protection laws and the above systemic problems compounding the matter doesn't help.

[TrevorW]

If you are not aware a lot of this information is suppressed by the Chinese Govt and the general populace is ignorant as to the extent of the damage being caused.

Nearly every man in China smokes prolifically the majority ignorant to the damage being caused too their health.

Also remember that Chinese internet is monitored the people can't even access such sites as Wikepedia and are denied a lot of information.

A country with human rights issues, 50 million unemployed etc etc

I'm not saying we are perfect but we retain the right too vote out a Govt that takes the needs of the few over the needs of the many

[Louwai (Bryan)]

Originally Posted by renormalised

You can't say that those pics may or may not have been taken in the last 10-15 years as you have no evidence at all to prove that. If those photos state they were taken when they were, then until you could prove otherwise, that's when they were taken. Which means this sort of environmental degradation is ongoing, and even if they were taken then, it most likely still is. Just because you never saw anything like that doesn't mean it's not occurring, or that it's not widespread. Just means you never saw it, or weren't allowed to.

Yes, we do have our own problems, but nowhere near that scale of pollution. I can tell you now that Maralinga compared to Lop Nor in NW China is spotless. It may have parts which are still quite irradiated and not all that safe to enter on a permanent basis, but areas within the Lop Nor area are so irradiated even the guys testing nukes there can't go into them, for any length of time.

Just because we have our own problems, doesn't mean when we see problems like this, that we can't then point out just how bad the situation there might be, or to say something to the Chinese about it. That maybe pointing the finger but we have every right to do so...at least we're making attempts to do something and have changed our policies. If that sort of thing is occurring in China (or any other country) then all we're getting from them on this matter (and it will eventually affect us all) is a mouthing of platitudes and very little action being taken at all to remedy it. Or what action is being taken is ineffectual because of the endemic corruption in their political system and industrial practices. Having little or no environmental protection laws and the above systemic problems compounding the matter doesn't help.

Carl,
I lived in China for just over 2yrs. In addition to that, I lived in the area that some of these phtos were supposedly taken (according to the text). I can honestly say that I also did not see anything like what is depicted in them.
Not saying it doesn't or didn't happen. but in 2yrs I didn't see any major poluting acts as shown here.

And as has been pointed out, the people are kept very much in the dark in general. The internet is censored a great deal + in schools & universities, the students are given access to Chinese internet content ONLY. They are not permitted to have access to international internet.