Boat Refugees

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Mike - I have no problems with sharing with others, from other nationalities. I'm very multi cultural. I quite often give a hearty smile to those from other cultures, they look a bit taken back at first but then return the smile. If I was wealthier, I'd certainly be travelling to lots of countries and seeing lots of things.

In the end, we're all people. Sadly, it seems that it's inbuilt into man's genetics to be racist and to suffer xenophobia (fear of foreignors). Sad, but true.

Dave

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by Jules76

It's funny, racism often involves people stereotyping a particular race or culture based on a minority of "bad eggs". And the irony here is that your basing your feelings that many Australians are racist based on a minority you see in day to day life. Put it this way, I think your focusing too much on a select few because your sensitive to this kind of reaction, and missing the many who walk on by seeing just another human being regardless of race/culture.

Sorry, but I just take offence to the notion that many Australians are racist. That's just simply not true.

I simply report what I see. Comments like "why can't they talk in English when they're out in public" - that's racist. It's a very common reaction from what I see. I sometimes deliberately talk to my father in German, because I can, and because I want a private conversation. And if someone were to pull me up on the streets about it, I'd tell them to and mind their own business as well. I'm a very upfront and blunt person (mostly). People don't seem to like my brusque manner, or the fact that I'm unafraid to voice my opinion on things as *I* see them. I call their attempts to silence my opinions social bullying. And if there's one thing that I HATE - it's a bully. I was very very badly bullied throughout my entire schooling, and it's one thing that I refuse to accept now.

Dave

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

Sometimes I wish that the land area of Earth had never drifted apart if it had not we may have learned to get along by now.

[DavidU (Dave)]

In the end we all have one address.
Earth.
Quite simple isn't it.

[mswhin63 (Malcolm)]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

Here are the numbers.

There were 86 boat arrivals in 1999, 51 in 2000, and another 43 in 2001.
The Howard Government changed the law and boats slowed to a trickle.

2002 – 1 boat – 1 person
2003 – 1 boat – 53 people
2004 – 1 boat – 15 people
2005 – 4 boats – 11 people
2006 – 6 boats – 60 people
2007 – 5 boats – 148 people
2008 – 7 boats – 161 people

I agree Mike miniscule numbers compared to the numbers coming through legal channels so why all the ado about nothing make you wonder doesn't it

Settler arrival figures

Settler Arrival Numbers vs Net Permanent migration 1998-1999 84100, 49 000 1999-2000 92300, 51200 2000-2001 107400, 60800 2001-2002 88 900 40700 2002-2003 93900 43500 2003-2004 111600 52500 2004-2005 123 400 60800 2005-2006 131600, 63700 2006-2007 140100, 68000 2007-2008 149 400 72 400 2008-2009 158 021 77 000 Source: overseas arrivals and departures
Settler arrivals by region of birth between July 2008 and June 2009

Arrivals % Variation Oceania and Antarctica 30 010 -5.3% Europe 29 294 -4.6% North Africa and the Middle East 11 143 34.3% South East Asia 21 008 -0.9% North East Asia 20 977 16.5% Southern Asia 25 900 17.2% Central Asia 1 731 -3.8% Northern America 2 254 2.5% South and Central America & the Caribbean 1 979 -5.8% Sub-Saharan Africa 13 025 22.9% Supplementary Country Codes 671 11.8% Not Stated/Not Elsewhere Included 29 -71.0% Grand Total 158 021 5.8%

How many tax payers dollars does it cost to process these people compared to people that arrive legit.

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by Hagar

I don't know about the rest of you but should I and my family be in a similar situation as the people on these boats I think I would make the same desparate attempts to get my family out of harms way. I thought we had assimilation/ investigation camps on an Island up the top somewhere. It would have to be better to move them to an area such as this and carry out some investigation on their backgrounds than have them stuck on a boat so desparate they are ready to die before going home.
We all tend to forget how bad things can really be. To us all home is a very safe place, they look at home as something quite diferent. Very very sad.

I wish all Australians thouht like you Doug, realistic, compassionate and understanding.

On ya fellow big guy

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by mswhin63

How many tax payers dollars does it cost to process these people compared to people that arrive legit.

Easily covered by our silly smokers I'd imagine...a small price to pay

[taminga16 (Greg)]

Originally Posted by supernova1965

Sometimes I wish that the land area of Earth had never drifted apart if it had not we may have learned to get along by now.

Australia is a victim of it's own isolation. We only know that which we are told.

Greg.

[marki]

Mike I agree with you 100%. Without getting into issues of racism or xenophobia these people need our help and we need to be a little more compasionate about the way we do things. Over the years I have had a number of Sudanese students both males and females. Two of them really opened my eyes to the plight of children in these countries. The boy watched his father executed by soldiers when he was 5 years old. He was forced to bare arms and fight from that age until he escaped at 12 years old. The female was taken away from her family and raped at age 9. These kids have horrible scars all over their torso's, legs and arms where they were repeatedly beaten and abused. The best thing is that they are so happy, happy to be here safe from persecution, violence, hatred and torture. Their great big smiles and wonderful nature makes my day and help me believe in the strength of the human spirit no matter what hardships are endured. Open the gates and let them in. Other countries are doing far more then us, look at Germany.

Mark

[mswhin63 (Malcolm)]

Originally Posted by taminga16

Australia is a victim of it's own isolation. We only know that which we are told.

Greg.

Flooding immigration may not be the answer, it creates tension as did English immigrating here to Australia, look how long it has taken to try and repair the rift (still ongoning).

My grandmother passed away couple of weeks ago and she has never forgiven the Japanese because my grandfather was killed in Borneo.

It takes a long ime to prepare people attitudes and needs a really good long time a international stability to create acceptance. Flooding immigrants continues to create tension and unacceptance.

Not that I don't mind immigration just flooding them in is causing tension. Esspecially when illegals get so much media attention. We had a good peaceful transistion for a while when Howard made changes nw Rudd has made the past tension come back again.

[jjjnettie (Jeanette)]

I see blatant racism every day at work.
Damn red neck town.

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by mswhin63

We had a good peaceful transistion for a while when Howard made changes.

oh dear, yes...stop the plight of poor destitute people from gaining media attention and you are all snugg in your bed huh? tut tut

[Jules76 (Julian)]

Originally Posted by mswhin63

We had a good peaceful transistion for a while when Howard made changes nw Rudd has made the past tension come back again.

Rudd made the tensions come back? According to the figures TrevorW posted, it's been increasing since 2005.

And it's interesting to note, that the majority of these refugees are coming from Sri Lanka fleeing from the civil war. In Dec 2001, a cease fire was delcared which was signed with international mediation in 2002.

2002 – 1 boat – 1 person (Cease fire)
2003 – 1 boat – 53 people (Cease fire)
2004 – 1 boat – 15 people (Cease fire)
2005 – 4 boats – 11 people (Limited hostilies begin)
2006 – 6 boats – 60 people (Hostilities escalate with offensive July 2006, driving the Tamils out of the Eastern Province)
2007 – 5 boats – 148 people (Continued hostilities - Tamils declare they will resume freedom fight)
2008 – 7 boats – 161 people (Sri Lanka formally withdraw from cease fire, open conflict)

Tamils defeated in 2009, and now we have an influx of refugees.


Interesting.....but no it's the Government's policies.

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by Jules76

Rudd made the tensions come back?

Interesting.....but no it's the Government's policies.

Laughable huh?

[PCH (Paul)]

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

National Security..?

Man that says a lot!

Can anyone name a mass murderer in Australia (or the US for that mater) that came on a leaky boat, lets see?...Martin Bryant..?...maybe, Ivan Malat...or perhaps former Australian Army officer-cadet, 19-year-old Julian Knight? I am ashamed

Red neck ignorant dumb Aussies need to do some research man and stop the prejudice

Mike

Well Mike,

I would say that everyone is entitled to their view. And it is just that - a view. An opinion. And yours is just an opinion too. Not right or wrong, - but just your view. And others should be able to have a different opinion to you without being labelled "dumb Aussies".

The mods should close this one straight away imo as there is nothing more likely to gather angry momentum than this topic which is dear to many peoples' hearts one way or another.

Just my 2c

[Bobbyoutback]

Before they close this thread , I'm very concerned with the boat arrivals , just the tip of the iceberg thats coming !

I must be a Redneck then ?
Bobby.

[renormalised (Carl)]

This fractious thread needs some comedy here...

zenaphobia

I'm pretty certain that most of the immigrants coming here (by any means) would have an aversion to "Zena"

People who are rednecks need medical attention for the rash around their necks

Seriously, though, I look at it this way. If we don't want refugees to be coming here then we should take measures to nip the problems that cause people to flee their home countries, in the bud. This "hands off" approach of the U.N. is a cop out. These people have the same rights and privileges as we do, as fellow humans. They also have the same responsibilities too. Quite frankly, if a government is causing grievous problems in it's country (like in Zimbabwe at present), go in and remove them. Give the people a chance to then sort their problems out without being terrorised by their own people. Help them out. But don't patronise them.

We need to start acting like one world and not like a bunch of disparate nation states. Otherwise we're on the slippery slope to collapse, and the causes will come on so many levels, let alone political problems.

[dugnsuz (Doug)]

When the media and commentators immediately post 9/11 stated that 'the world had changed forever' I believe this is what they envisiged through the dust of those collapsing towers - a world where races, the ideologicaly aligned close ranks, stick together in a collective fear of the outsider. Commonsense if allowed to prevail would show the 'outsider ' to be a man or woman wishing to live in a society or climate free of danger or persecution. Instead we put them all in the same boat (no pun meant) - we label them all potential terrorists and by doing so disgrace ourselves. Many talk of the failure of multiculturalism in Australia - surely all can view this failure through the distorted lens of the post 9/11 world. Would there have been a Cronulla without this context? And, I agree too that we as a species are violent in nature regardless of race and ideology...but that's a choice not an inevitability. We gravitate towards it as our default position, but that too must and will change.
But, for now...fear rules the day, allowing those who dish out the fear complete control over those who willingly and enthusiastically gorge on it.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

yeah, but Carl, the real problem with the UN is the veto vote. As soon as one of the permanent council nations doesn't like something, they veto it. No matter what the democratic process voting resulted in. Let's consider Israel's illegal invasion and occupation of Palestinian territory for starters - the US has veto'd that so many times...image if the democratic process actually worked and the UN as a whole did things...it'd be very productive, and would do what the damn organisation was meant to do in the first place. The UN is nothing but a front for what the US government wants. Nothing more and nothing less.

Redistribution of wealth - I'm sorry, but I find it appalling that 99.999% of our global wealth is owned by 0.01% of the population. That's just really appalling. The poor countries end up being power bases for despots like Mugabe - and what did the rest of the world do (other than South Africa)? SFA. I bet if there was oil there...

What about the horrors of Somalia? Ethiopa? I suggest that people check out Tom Stoddart's photography...harrowing to say the least.

http://www.tomstoddart.com/iwitness.html

what have these poor people done to deserve this? Individuals, businesses and governments need to join together as one to stop these atrocities from happening.

Dave

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

That ceasefire did nothing...even now, the Sri Lankan government and army are under investigation for war crimes against humanity. Killing tamil who surrended. Killing children. Reminds me of the Vietnam war and occupying US army...

One of the most infamous images to come out of the Vietnam war (a direct result of the US government's ability to accept a communist North Vietnam - a direct result of xenophobia imho):

http://vinpon.files.wordpress.com/20...eofthemos2.jpg


Dave

Originally Posted by Jules76

And it's interesting to note, that the majority of these refugees are coming from Sri Lanka fleeing from the civil war. In Dec 2001, a cease fire was delcared which was signed with international mediation in 2002.