speeding

[Benno18 (Ben)]

Originally Posted by pgc hunter

What a silly idea. What if the P-plater's parent's /gaurdian's only have 6 cylinder cars? Then the poor bugger will have to wait several extra years to learn to drive. Driving is a key life skill and is almost essential for things like jobs, buying groceries to keep yourself fed etc. Why the hell deny that to people, simply because they are "unfortunate" enough to have parents with a Ford Falcon or Holden Commodore in the garage...dad's v6 station wagon isn't exactly a bloody top fuel dragster And you contradicted yourself when you said that "4 cylinder cars can still go 160-170km/h"......isn't "speed" THE reason why you want P-platers to be forced to drive 4 cylinder vehicles, yet you're suggesting that 4 cylinder machines can still rip up the asphalt...

I learnt to drive on 6 cylinder cars yet I'm still alive...and never had an accident It's not the bloody car, it's the driver. Give an idiot a 4 cyl car, and they'll die just as fast as in a v8. The driver has to respect the vehicle and drive to the conditions within his/her ability, not to the artificial standards of a bunch of pigs with their snouts in the trough.


Sorry for the long rant, I just find the constant and ever new restrictions on innocent motorists to be blatantly stupid and unfair. As usual, the 99% of the population is being punished for the actions of a few, all in the name of revenue.

I didnt mean to contradict myself. I dnt deny that 4 cyl cars can get to the 150km/hr mark what i mean is that it takes longer to get to that speed. Rip up the asphalt too many times and the car wont be working very well as they arn't designed to get to those speeds at such a fast rate. Also i think it would be fine for a LEARNER to learn in a 6 cyl car, just when they get to there P's they can only have a 4cyl car. By the time the P plater is 17/18/19 they should be earning money in some way and could only afford a cheap car anyway. well thats the way it should work, i think

[mithrandir (Andrew)]

Originally Posted by Benno18

I didnt mean to contradict myself. I dnt deny that 4 cyl cars can get to the 150km/hr mark what i mean is that it takes longer to get to that speed. Rip up the asphalt too many times and the car wont be working very well as they arn't designed to get to those speeds at such a fast rate. Also i think it would be fine for a LEARNER to learn in a 6 cyl car, just when they get to there P's they can only have a 4cyl car. By the time the P plater is 17/18/19 they should be earning money in some way and could only afford a cheap car anyway. well thats the way it should work, i think

"Cheap" often equates with "old". Meaning your inexperienced driver doesn't get all the advantages of ABS, multiple airbags, ANCAP **** safety, etc at the time when they most probably need them.

[stephenb (Stephen)]

I do not support that idea, because you are taking away the full control and responsibility of the vehicle away from the driver.

[Miaplacidus (Brian)]

The answer, Alex, is to stick a great big pointy spear on the steering wheel and have it pointing directly at the driver's heart. (It has already been demonstrated that air bags, although they save more lives, also cause more accidents because driver's factor them into their risk-of-death calculations when doing something stupid. It really is basic economics. Moral hazard, and all that...)
I'm afraid you just will never din it into the majority of the population that driving is a privilege and not a right. I see people who have had strokes trying to get their licence back, and the argument that they might pose a risk to others just doesn't wash. Alcoholics are the same. Young people, old people — so many just don't give a rat's what might happen to perfect strangers. All that is important is having the right to drive insanely fast whenever they feel like it. How depressing...

[Peter Ward]

I find it disturbing that many Australians are so brainwashed that they actually believe the PC nonsense constantly wheeled out regarding vehicle speed. A breath of fresh air appeared in today's SMH.

"German autobahns are often cited as a model by advocates of higher speed limits in Australia. And with good reason: they seem to work. Despite having no speed limit along much of their routes, these massive roads account for 31 per cent of road travel and just 3 per cent of the road toll. A 2005 study by the German interior ministry found sections with unrestricted speeds had the same crash rate as sections with a variety of speed limits imposed."


Meanwhile back in our bubble-wrapped nanny Oz the revenue stream for minor speed incursions continues to flow....

[Astro78]

1. $50 hands free kit compulsory purchase with rego. No mobile, bad luck.
2. Police chases need to be reconsidered
3. Done once for drink driving, that $1000 odd fine goes straight to a breathalizer key
4. Empower 'car lovers' with more race tracks and most powerfully get the hoons teaching safe driving practise to other convicted hoons.

just my 2 cents

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by Astro78

1. $50 hands free kit compulsory purchase with rego. No mobile, bad luck.

Good to see some thought has gone into this

BUT... why should I pay for a hands free if my car (gosh darn it...wouldn't you know...it's German! ) already has an integrated phone ( in dash & on the steering wheel) system?

[Astro78]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Good to see some thought has gone into this

BUT... why should I pay for a hands free if my car (gosh darn it...wouldn't you know...it's German! ) already has an integrated phone ( in dash & on the steering wheel) system?

Lucky you

Fair call - you wouldn't

I would however like to see a proportional system of fines to ones assets or income. If deterrent is the reason we have fines, then....it's really only demerit points deterring a $500k director for example. Sorry it's 2009, $10.4 million dollar director

[pgc hunter]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

I find it disturbing that many Australians are so brainwashed that they actually believe the PC nonsense constantly wheeled out regarding vehicle speed. A breath of fresh air appeared in today's SMH.

"German autobahns are often cited as a model by advocates of higher speed limits in Australia. And with good reason: they seem to work. Despite having no speed limit along much of their routes, these massive roads account for 31 per cent of road travel and just 3 per cent of the road toll. A 2005 study by the German interior ministry found sections with unrestricted speeds had the same crash rate as sections with a variety of speed limits imposed."


Meanwhile back in our bubble-wrapped nanny Oz the revenue stream for minor speed incursions continues to flow....

here here mate! The simple fact that the Bracks Nazi regime reduced the tolerance to 3km/h is revenue raising...anyone who cant see that is obviously brainwashed. Ofcourse, his partner in crime John Buttby continues his assault on motorists

It's only a matter of time before this socialist commie nazi PC cotton wool govt bans any form of transport whatsoever.

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by pgc hunter

It's only a matter of time before this socialist commie nazi PC cotton wool govt bans any form of transport whatsoever.

That is the logical conclusion to be drawn.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by pgc hunter

Driving is a key life skill and is almost essential for things like jobs, buying groceries to keep yourself fed etc.

Sab - it's not a necessity. I've had my licence for 10 years but hardly drive as I do not have a car. It has not been a necessity for me in my 20+ years of working. It's handy, but not a necessity.

Alex - F1 cars are not done wirelessly. There's a limiter switch on the steering wheel which is programmed to drop the speed of the F1 car to 60km/h in the pit lane. There is a very valid reason for this - safety. There are a lot of people in the pit, and a speeding car could potential go out of control and hurt a lot of people.

Lots of things could be done to cars, and I think that most of them are good ideas to be honest. I see so many drivers, and to be honest, the vast majority of them must have gotten their licences from Kellogs corn flakes boxes!

Bojan - speed does kill. It's a major factor. Slowing down in an emergency when doing 180km/h is a lot harder than when doing 90km/h - no matter which car you are driving. Braking distances are longer, driver reaction times are far more important. Many people do not keep proper distances from the car in front of them, many speed, and speed on unfamiliar sections of road too. Many drive like ratbags in poor weather conditions, and do not adjust their driving style accordingly.

BTW - whilst there's no speed limit on the autobahn, many do not do 180km/h etc. Most do travel around the 100km/h mark from everything that I've seen/read/heard.

Dave

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by dpastern

.....whilst there's no speed limit on the autobahn, many do not do 180km/h etc. Most do travel around the 100km/h mark from everything that I've seen/read/heard.

Dave

This was not my experience.

For around a decade I spent a lot of time visiting Germany and frequently used their autobahns. Doing 100km/hr was frankly dangerous and would invite attention from the local traffic Polizei. You'd be told to take the tourist route!

140/160km/hr was a comfortable zone for most of the Merc's & Golf's I hired.

Going slow in the left lane(s) definitely invites a WTF?! from the locals.

You only passed on the left.

Even transonic Beemers/Ferraris/Mercs would dutifully pull back to the middle lane after passing.

We drive like mugs in comparison. Speed is not the issue. Attentive, predictable driving that also makes your intentions clear to other motorists would go a long way to cleaning up our act.

(PS The Germans are intolerant of drink driving. You cannot drink and drive. Drink driving can involve loss of license and 15,000 Euro in fines... and if you injure someone. Go to gaol. Directly to goal. No excuses. The consequences, unlike Oz, are severe )

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Even the best driver will have issues slowing a car that is going faster. There is no need for high speeds on the roads, 100km/h is more than fast enough. Modern society is far too obsessed with doing things @ a million miles per hour imho.

Dave

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by dpastern

Even the best driver will have issues slowing a car that is going faster. There is no need for high speeds on the roads, 100km/h is more than fast enough. ......

Dave

Yes. Ban running too. Despite the aerobic and fitness benefits, sprinting into a light pole can kill.

This has been well covered elsewhere. Speed is not the issue ( no one can refute the German autobahn data). Driving like a drongo is however, dangerous.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

I agree that driving like a drongo is dangerous, but the sad issue is, the vast majority of our drivers do just that. I don't have to be driving a car to see it - I see enough as a pedestrian and public transport user. It's rather scary. Speed is a factor - if you're going to crash, then you want to usually crash at slower speeds.

Dave

[pgc hunter]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Yes. Ban running too. Despite the aerobic and fitness benefits, sprinting into a light pole can kill.

Not to mention reaching speeds of up to 15km/h! maybe nanny Krudd should padlock people to their houses...that way no one will die

This has been well covered elsewhere. Speed is not the issue ( no one can refute the German autobahn data). Driving like a drongo is however, dangerous.

very true, totally agree....but Supernannies running our states must brainwash the public and reduce "speeding" tolerances to 2km/h in order to fill their troughs....to compensate for their own incompetence, budget blowouts etc.

Sad thing is alot of people actually fall for it and then bang on about how any amount of speed above 0km/h is "deadly" and bull like that. if I had my way...all dual lane country highways would be 130km/h, 2 lane rural roads 110km/h, urban freeways 110km/h and freeway tunnels 90km/h. That way people might not actually fall asleep on the Hume and other highways that have artificailly low speed limits. Some over engineered roads such as Eastlink and the Princes Hwy between Melbourne and Geelong should be 130km/h.

This brings me to another thing....that Nazi labour premier John buttby reduced the Westgate Fwy speed limit to 80km/h from the bridge to the tunnel in response to that accident in the burnley tunnel....OMG what is that gonna solve, the limit in the tunnel is already 80km/h, the rest of the bloody road has NOTHING to do with that crash

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by dpastern

speed is a factor - if you're going to crash, then you want to usually crash at slower speeds.

Dave

This ignores some basic physics.

Pedestrians stepping in front of slow moving Mack trucks will always loose. Do we now say all trucks must only travel at 30km/hr or less??

There are times when speed is not only desirable, but safer (eg. aviation...go too slow, you stall & die)

Training drivers to be aware of when speed or lack thereof is appropriate would seem a better alternative....as despite draconian regulation in Oz...we bury all too many road users.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Flying and driving are 2 vastly different things imho - one is 2d, the other 3d. Whilst I have no experience with being a pilot, I can only imagine that it takes a fair bit to be a good one. The pedestrian comment is a bit silly Peter, because you've taken me right out of context with it. There is no real need for high speeds - most people (and cars for that matter), are not capable of doing high speeds. Unless you have F1 reflexes and driving ability, then the faster you go, the higher the risk of more damage if something does happen.

I wholly agree that driver training in Australia is very poor - but that has never been the real interest of governments I'm afraid.

I'll give you an example of "speed" - when I was 2 or 3, my parents had me in their car (VW) and were driving up to my aunt/uncles place (they lived on an Aboriginal mission near Caroona, itself not far from Quirindi in NSW). My dad used to take the putty putty road, because it was quieter and more scenic. On one occasion, this truck, with a trailer on it, but unladen came flying around a blind corner and his trailer slid out, well and truly onto the wrong side of the road. He was speeding. My dad was doing the speed limit and reacted accordingly - pulling as far to the left as possible (a few centimetres from the armco) and avoided an accident. If that trailer had hit us, we'd all be dead I'd say. It had enough speed, force and mass to make a mess of things, not to mention there was a drop on the left if we went through the armco (which was going to be very highly likely I might add). If my dad had been driving faster, then he would have had less time to react, and probably would not have been able to successfully avoid the truck's trailer. If the truck driver had been driving at appropriate speeds, his trailer wouldn't have slid out onto the wrong side of the road.

I'm pretty pi$$ed that some dropkick truck driver was speeding and nearly killed a young family because of his stupidity.

See my point now?

Dave

[AstralTraveller (David)]

David,

Was the truck driver speeding or simply going too fast for the conditions? I think it is an important distinction. If one is going to make the argument, which I have some sympathy for, that one can drive safely above our posted speed limits one must also accept that on occasions the posted limit is too fast. Apart from some roads not being up to standard there is rain, fog, road works, heavy traffic and whatever else to consider.

Too many people seem to think that the number on the road sign is the slowest they should travel and nothing should ever stop them from doing that speed. Delays and the unexpected are part of driving and you just have to accept that. They are never an excuse to get angry or aggressive, nor make up for lost time afterwards. Even other motorists being idiots is a fact of life which shouldn't cause you to do something stupid.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

David - by all accounts, both. I believe the speed limit was 60, and he was both doing that and more, and the corner was really a tightish hairpin, 50 in a car was a safe speed. In a truck, with a longer wheel base...my dad showed me the spot a few years ago when we were driving up that way.

As my dad has always said (and he's been driving longer than most in this thread I'd say) - the speed limit is the *maximum* speed. There is NO law saying that you must travel at this speed.

I watch people drive in the rain and they drive like ratbags. Instead of cutting speed by the usual recommend 30% they speed up! People do not drive within their limits. Well, the vast majority that I see in my usual day to day activity.

Dave