maxim dl 5 - Page 2

dpastern (Dave Pastern) · #21 31-10-2009, 07:38 PM

That sounds quite reasonable logic Fred. Remember though, it's hard for us newbies to learn what should be done. We mostly take the easiest and least complex routes because that's what most tutorials out there suggest (rightly or wrongly). And, by all accounts, Maxim is a complex beast. I'm allowing 2-3 years of regular usage to really learn its ins and outs to be honest, probably longer!

You know what would be really cool? A meetup with many of IIS's top imagers - both for theory and practice. There are so many talented imagers here on IIS, and it would benefit the members to no end imho. You guys (experienced imagers) have excellent knowledge and skills, something that all newbies should look up to and aspire to. Sadly, that's a process that takes much learning and many years I feel.

Dave

Bassnut (Fred) · #22 31-10-2009, 08:08 PM

Well, IIS reaches all corners of OZ, might be hard to organise ;-).

As Jase often says, very wisely, its often getting to know the software you have well, really well, and not chopping from one app to another, like I did to start and waste litterally months on learning curves, that counts (assuming you start with something reasonable, based not just on whether its free or not).

The best way to learn, is to fiddle and experiment with just one app untill you have it licked by yourself. Having someone tell you is fast, but you also forget quickly. Actually reading the manual, in painfull detail is also critical, how many here bother, aye?. I see countless inane posts that prove no attempt has been made to read the instructions.

end rant ;-)

Tandum (Robin) · #23 31-10-2009, 08:56 PM

I always thought maxim was a single threaded application. ie: It never uses more than one CPU, so if you guide and image with it, it will have to pause guiding while it downloads an image. If it where multi threaded you would see it pulling more than 25% usage from a quad core while working/processing.

dpastern (Dave Pastern) · #24 31-10-2009, 09:06 PM

hehehe Fred - that's one of the reasons why I paid US $100 more for the boxed set of MaximDL - so I *could* read the manual. I typically read the manual/user guide for nearly everything that I buy. I don't always understand what's written, but that's another story ;-)

I agree about fiddling too, even though by nature, I'm not really a fiddler.

I bought Donald Waid's instructional DVDs the other day to help with PP in Photoshop. I've been busy investing in the basics (hardware/software) of late, and now I need to get out there and get some imaging experience and most importantly, *learn* from it all.

I reckon a tutorial DVD from you [experienced] guys would be awesome. Pick a subject and do a vid presentation on it, and then combine it all into a workable piece of information. I'd buy something like that.

Dave

Bassnut (Fred) · #25 31-10-2009, 09:06 PM

I dont know if Maxim is multi threaded, but it doesnt matter, its the cams that count. SBIG pauses guiding during image download with its internal/external guide chip (but not the new STX apparently), ive also used a QHY5 guiding whilst imaging with an SBIG, and guiding continuse during down load, they use seperate drivers.

AlexN · #26 31-10-2009, 09:08 PM

nah, it doesnt pause during downloads Robin.. It may be single thread, but it doesn't do that.. The USB bus can handle the information coming down from the imager and the guider at the same time, not to mention the guider is only downloading a tiny sub-frame, guide pulses sent to the mount via the camera are tiny little bits of information too.. It wouldnt require 2 threads to complete the tasks...

I had maxim guiding and downloading an image about 15 mins ago before this cloud rolled in

good looking sub of NGC253 it was too..

Bassnut (Fred) · #27 31-10-2009, 09:27 PM

Geez Dave, load up the grief why dont you ;-), Ive got a long way to go (and I havent posted a pic in mths, not good).

Yes, and there are heaps of video how-tos on the web, although I havent seen one on guiding live with a graph in realtime. It depends a lot on the rig of course, every set up is different.

Its supprising what a graph can reveil, over/under agressiveness, backlash, polar alignment, balance, stiction, PE, mirror flop, loose fittings, seeing (related to guide exposure time, very important, to avoid chasing seeing or conversley, under correcting). The guide error graph is the realtime indicator of exactly how your mount is performing, in "graphic" detail ;-).

dpastern (Dave Pastern) · #28 31-10-2009, 09:44 PM

:-) You guys are far better than I am, who better to ask? I haven't adjusted my mount for backlash, or done any PEC training yet. I don't have to really worry about mirror flop. Flexure, seeing and guide cam alignment are all really good suggestions of things to watch out for. See, this is why I ask!

Dave

Tandum (Robin) · #29 31-10-2009, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexN

The USB bus can handle the information coming down from the imager and the guider at the same time, not to mention the guider is only downloading a tiny sub-frame, guide pulses sent to the mount via the camera are tiny little bits of information too.. It wouldnt require 2 threads to complete the tasks

You don't understand. A program must have a thread running to monitor/complete each task. If it's single threaded and downloading an image from the imaging camera, it can't do anything else till it's done. You would send a yield command to the guider to get it to stop so you can get the light frame, then start the guider backup. Basically a signle threaded application is like me, can only do one thing at a time

AlexN · #30 31-10-2009, 10:43 PM

Oh i understand multi threading perfectly, The point is that for the program to analyse a guide error, and make the required adjustment takes 1/11000 of a second.. I don't know if it maybe pauses guiding to initiate the download command, then guides during download, pauses during displaying the image then continues to guide.

But I can tell you this... While its downloading the image from my camera, its still making guide corrections...

So either its multi threaded, or simply breaking the laws of the universe, or somehow finding another way around.. In any case, thats what it does. it does it, it does it well, I love it!

Bassnut (Fred) · #31 31-10-2009, 10:59 PM

Alex is right there (not that im an expert BTW), SBIG just pauses guiding during image download (not with the AO8 tho, I think) cause thats the way they do it, for what ever reason, nothing to do with mutithreading.

Im sorry if ive caused angst here, I could be wrong.

Tandum (Robin) · #32 31-10-2009, 11:08 PM

No problem Fred, I didn't write it so I don't know for sure but most of these vendors need to look at their code in this age of multi core processors. AFAIK DSS is the only one using all cores available in a cpu.

marki · #33 31-10-2009, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpastern

Oooh I didn't know Maxim did guiding.

Dave it does a whole lot more than that. Better get reading that manual of yours as it really is a very complete astro-imaging package from aquisition to processing. You pays your money but you get a great program. Love it.

Mark

dpastern (Dave Pastern) · #34 01-11-2009, 12:06 AM

hehehe Mark, I've gathered that! I've slated the next week or so to try and sort out my guidescope mounting issues, and then I'm going to start reading the user guide. I'll probably use PHD for guiding on the laptop and keep maxm dl on the main machine for processing.

Dave

AlexN · #35 01-11-2009, 12:39 AM

what the hell you wanna go and do that for Dave?? Maxim belongs in the field... Using PHD is fine for starters, but once you get serious about imaging you really want more serious software running the show.. PHD does work, but if you really want to get your guiding spot on with the smallest possible corrections and the easiest troubleshooting, MaximDL should be doing your guiding... and if its doing your guiding, it may as well do your imaging..

marki · #36 01-11-2009, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpastern

hehehe Mark, I've gathered that! I've slated the next week or so to try and sort out my guidescope mounting issues, and then I'm going to start reading the user guide. I'll probably use PHD for guiding on the laptop and keep maxm dl on the main machine for processing.

Dave

Do have a go at guiding with Maxim as the others have said the graphs and small window are great and it is easy to setup (much better than PHD IMO). When I set mine up I turn up the volume so I can leave the scope and have a beer under the patio. If the ding ding sound stops you will see me running for the scope coz it means the autoguider has stopped working

. I also like the auto focus routines (works well with the moonlite, temp compensation, multi focuser control) and the fact that you can integrate so many other programs with it (CCD inspector, pempro, focus max etc). There is also a basic planetarium in there as well a dome control etc etc. You have full camera control including filter wheels, peltier settings etc and Starry night also links up well making life very easy. I think it is great value for money even without going into the stacking and processing ability of the program.

Mark

Bassnut (Fred) · #37 01-11-2009, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexN

what the hell you wanna go and do that for Dave?? Maxim belongs in the field... Using PHD is fine for starters, but once you get serious about imaging you really want more serious software running the show.. PHD does work, but if you really want to get your guiding spot on with the smallest possible corrections and the easiest troubleshooting, MaximDL should be doing your guiding... and if its doing your guiding, it may as well do your imaging..

Ahmen, bruttal but true

Tandum (Robin) · #38 01-11-2009, 12:53 AM

Geees you guys are mean, it's far easier to start with easy software and work your way up, kicking out hardward issues on the way than jumping in at the deep end to learn how to swim.

marki · #39 01-11-2009, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tandum

Geees you guys are mean, it's far easier to start with easy software and work your way up, kicking out hardward issues on the way than jumping in at the deep end to learn how to swim.

Thats the way my Dad taught me to swim

Mark

AlexN · #40 01-11-2009, 01:05 AM

As I said though, to start out, PHD is fine because it does work without any fiddling.. but if you want results. fiddling is what you need to do, and if you can't fiddle with settings, then you're not going to get real far are you?

Mark, I just got Maxim controlling my focuser tonight! Clouds ruined the fun before it even got started...