Why so few observation reports? - Page 2

Saturnine (Jeff) · #21 28-09-2009, 10:57 PM

I'd like to add my own interpretation and that is that visual observing is such an subjective experience that taking notes and drawing sketches sometimes takes away the enjoyment of consulting maps and observing lists etc. and gradually star hopping to that sometime elusive faint fuzzy or pretty double star. Although I have at times taken notes and even made a few sketches and they help to remember particular sessions and sights seen and have been working my way ,albeit slowly, through the Messier list and a few others as well and ticking them off as an aid to my memory.
I feel that I should also qualify what I've written and offer my congratulations and admiration to all the astronomers that have committed their observations to paper otherwise we wouldn't have such treasured books and observing guides as Hartungs etc. etc. and also to the members of this forum that have placed observing lists in the Projects and Articles section that are an inspiration to us visual observers. I may be classified as old fashioned and that's fine but I take delight in finally getting that targeted object in the eyepiece and somewhat feel that GoTo is somehow cheating the learning curve, though something like Argo Navis digital setting circles are a very tempting device as an aid to actually seeing more objects in a given session but ,also, as they say in the classics, quality over quantity is more satisfying. Well, it's clear outside, so I'm out there.
Take your time and enjoy what you see.

Kind Regards

Jeff

pgc hunter · #22 28-09-2009, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodstar

I should get a bit more disciplined and post some observing reports.

I have trouble keeping up with the traffic on this forum, and in particular finding the time to read other's observing notes - let alone posting my own. In that context, I wonder how many would actually read mine if I posted them?! Anyhow, I will start posting some in the coming months, and see what benefit others get from them!??

I'll be reading....

Quote:

I have noticed on Cloudy Nights, where there are much more defined categories of threads, that there is always much higher traffic in relation to eyepieces, equipment etc, as opposed to actual observing. I think that a large number of amateurs either deliberately or inadvertently spend more time thinking about, discussing, and planning equipment purchases than actually observing. This is fine....whatever your bliss is.....but actual observing is hard work, it takes discipline, and if astronomy is just a casual hobby there will be very little progress made with improving observing technique or making detailed notes.

I noticed that too....infact you'd be *lucky* to get 2 replies to your observing reports there.

ngcles · #23 29-09-2009, 12:56 AM

Hi Jeff & All,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saturnine

I'd like to add my own interpretation and that is that visual observing is such an subjective experience that taking notes and drawing sketches sometimes takes away the enjoyment of consulting maps and observing lists etc ...

I may be classified as old fashioned and that's fine but I take delight in finally getting that targeted object in the eyepiece and somewhat feel that GoTo is somehow cheating the learning curve, though something like Argo Navis digital setting circles are a very tempting device as an aid to actually seeing more objects in a given session but ,also, as they say in the classics, quality over quantity is more satisfying. Well, it's clear outside, so I'm out there.
Take your time and enjoy what you see.

Kind Regards

Jeff

I think you're right Jeff, if you find taking notes etc etc detracts from the experience then the solution for you is simple -- don't take notes! This is a hobby after all and it should be as simple or as complex as you want it to be. Its not a competition or a matter of "if he/she does it I should too" -- its a matter of what you or anyone else for that matter finds enjoyable and enhances the experience of being under the stars -- yes?

As for "cheating", isn't using a telescope cheating in the first place ??

But seriously, if that's your go, good on ya and enjoy it. I have a different experience -- I was a dedicated star hopper etc for years and years. Like riding a bicycle, it never leaves you. I don't feel I need to improve or practice my finding skills and the Argo simply makes my observing so much more productive (from my point of view) it is a brilliant bit of gear (and I'm not paid to say that).

The Servocat is a bit different. Sure it has wow factor -- but I'm over that. Best of all it means a drive. Once an object is centred in the ep it stays there. No more up and across, up and across keeping it in the sweet-spot etc etc. The telescope simply gets out of the way and you are left only with a view. I reckon it is also worth 1/2 a magnitude at the eyepiece because your brain is fixed only on looking (hopefully observing). The dictaphone for me also assists the same process. I just switch it on state the identity of the object and the eyepiece used and then just ramble on about what I can see. Simple as -- for me anyway.

Why do I post my observations here? First and foremost it is to encourage others to observe -- anything.

Frankly the other reason is this (and it's selfish I know) -- I don't want people to think that because I write for S&T and or AS&T, that I'm really just some well-paid journo/writer stuck in an office somewhere writing columns about things I really don't have much of a clue about. Then, when it gets dark, someone hangs me up in a cupboard and they bring me out the next day to write something else. Some people believe that is the way it is with the folks who write for books or magazines. For most of us its a long, long way from the truth. I post my raw observations here to hopefully dispel that myth.

I look (and have looked) through telescopes quite a lot.

What I hope to show (through posting here) and have people understand is that I am an observer first and last. I'm just like most of the people here who are passionate about and hopelessly addicted to astronomy. I'm an active member of an astronomical society (I was even it's President once!) too. I go to the talks, take my 'scope to the open nights from time to time, occasionally give talks at my club and hang around with other amateurs because ... that's what I am.

I make a telescope from time to time when I feel I need one. I love looking through telescopes big and small. I'm not a journalist. I work from home (on those columns) and the eyepiece impressions are written, virtually without exception from my own notes (that's another good reason for me to keep notes). Its not vicarious, they are my experiences looking through my eyepieces using the telescopes I made.

To summarise: I hope that when people read them they will say to themselves "this guy does actually look through telescopes" -- I walk the talk.

I just happen to be lucky enough to have a gig that pays me a few bob to write about it (something I also enjoy a lot).

I sure hope I have never put anyone off from posting their own experiences -- that was never my intention. I really like reading about what other people see through their telescopes and hope others will continue/start to post their eyepiece impressions. I'd be seriously surprised if you get your paper "marked" here by anyone -- I hope that I and others in return can do the best we can to simply encourage you whatever level you're at.

Best,

Les D

Rob_K · #24 29-09-2009, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngcles

I sure hope I have never put anyone off from posting their own experiences -- that was never my intention. I really like reading about what other people see through their telescopes and hope others will continue/start to post their eyepiece impressions. I'd be seriously surprised if you get your paper "marked" here by anyone -- I hope that I and others in return can do the best we can to simply encourage you whatever level you're at.

Well said Les! You certainly have never put me off, in the same way that Hubble images have never put me off enjoying astrophotography at my own level (now don't get a big head - let's say Peter Ward's images rather than Hubble!

).

Personally, I enjoy everyone's observing reports, from your massive screeds Les, to tales of the simplest of nights out. What they do is not so much inspire, but show the rich diversity of personal experience out there, and a common passion for the night sky. My own reports are pretty basic, but so am I, LOL! Although in all honesty there is a little bit of secret hope in mine that maybe if I post what I can see through a cheap little scope then it might inspire a few bods suffering aperture envy to enjoy what they've got a little more. And the Universe is a wonderful thing at all scales!

Keep 'em coming - aperture envy certainly hasn't been my problem this winter, but clear sky envy has!!!

Cheers -

Lismore Bloke (Paul) · #25 29-09-2009, 07:56 AM

I would like to thank everyone for posting on this thread. When I posed the question I was hoping to draw out some opinions and experiences that might explain the small number of observation reports. I suspected that there was a feeling that the quality of observations that had been posted in the reports section were so high, that simple eyepiece impressions might look a bit lightweight. The responses to my own simple posts has been so welcoming that I felt that I should continue posting. Once again Les has summarised it nicely. We are all different and should not feel that we have to post observations of a semi-professional nature to feel accepted. Purchasing a dictaphone soon will improve the quality and detail, not just of the posts themselves, but what I am seeing. Training the eye to see more detail. Not rushing from one object to another. I am trying to improve my observations because I CHOOSE TO DO IT - NOT BECAUSE I FEEL THAT I HAVE TO PLEASE ANYONE OR MEET A STANDARD. I will be getting an Argo setup for the 12" Dob soon because it will maximise my eyepiece time and reduce the frustration of not finding objects in a light-polluted environment. Visual observing is a hobby after all and we all should observe in a way that gives us the most enjoyment. Thanks again to everyone. Cheers, Paul.

goober (Doug) · #26 29-09-2009, 02:23 PM

One last piece of advice if you're going to post obs. report. Do NOT call Mimosa "Bcrux". ngcles will be all over you

pgc hunter · #27 29-09-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goober

One last piece of advice if you're going to post obs. report. Do NOT call Mimosa "Bcrux". ngcles will be all over you

Observation Report 23/6/09
Scope : 12" dob
Time: 10:40pm
Seeing: 4/10
Transparency: 4/5

Jewel Box
it was awesome

Becrux
Very nice star in Crux, lovely in the 12" dob at 104x. Really, really great.

Eta Carina
Totally kewl, espically with UHC filter at 64x. So big. Keyhole was spotted as a looping dark cloud within the brightest part of the complex

ngcles · #28 29-09-2009, 04:52 PM

Hi Doug & All,

Quote:

Originally Posted by goober

One last piece of advice if you're going to post obs. report. Do NOT call Mimosa "Bcrux". ngcles will be all over you

... like a cheap suit. Grrrrrr ...

Best,

Les D

P.S I thought a grumpy old man was allowed a few pet aversions ??

P.P.S Yes, I do have more than one pet aversion ... but you won't get to know the others until you cross the line ...

P.P.P.S Doug,

re your comment about having a baby around the house -- agree completely. Been there, done that. They're only young once (thank goodness). Drink in every moment of their childhood while its there to be enjoyed. The stars will still be waiting for you later.

Paddy (Patrick) · #29 29-09-2009, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goober

One last piece of advice if you're going to post obs. report. Do NOT call Mimosa "Bcrux". ngcles will be all over you

I wondered if you meant it was something that would turn him on!

mozzie (Peter) · #30 29-09-2009, 06:17 PM

what a great thread this has turned out to be as some of the other observation are reported its good to then chase that object and have a look great thread lets all post the occasional nights viewing and let others see what you were looking at
mozzie

Lismore Bloke (Paul) · #31 29-09-2009, 07:39 PM

Jeez PGC you like living dangerously!!!

Classic! You will say next that you like the Caldwell list rather than the NGC.

pgc hunter · #32 29-09-2009, 08:12 PM

Ooh the Caldwell...totez forgot about that funtastic compilation of visual pleasure! That's like, like the most awesomest supa dooopa catalogue evah! Teh NGC wishes it was as mint as the 1 and only Caldwell. Becrux shood be part of ze Caldwell catalogue, you all know it's right and totally keeewwll!!!!

Rodstar (Rod) · #33 29-09-2009, 08:17 PM

Les, it is interesting to read your thoughts about Servocat.

When Peter Read made the Mary Rose, he kindly pre-drilled the scope in anticipation of ultimately fitting a Servocat when I had the necessary funds. I have now had the Mary Rose for 2.5 years, and I am yet Servocat fitted. I very much enjoy observing with the target moving through the FOV. For one thing, it helps me get my bearings as to E-W. I use Naglers and an Ethos with a Paracorr, so except at high power the object remains sharp and clear for a reasonable period of time. Nudging the scope to keep the object in the FOV is really second nature these days and requires minimal thought or effort.

I suspect it is the standing for long periods which has a greater adverse effect on my observing over the course of a long night, rather than the effort involved in following a moving target. I need to be quite disciplined about having regular breaks, sitting in my folding chair every so often, or I find that by about midnight, I am struggling to maintain my enthusiasm.

The one situation in which I wish I had Servocat is when I am showing the sky to newcomers / members of the public. I need to adjust the scope between every observer to keep the object in the FOV, and this can become very tiring over the course of an evening. It would be nice to train the scope on a target, and know it is still pointing at the object 20 minutes later!

I am interested in pursuing double star measurements in the coming years, and an thinking about getting an astrometric eyepiece. I suspect at that point getting Servocat may become necessary so that I can make accurate measurements with a stationary object.

Fortunately the exchange rate with the US has improved somewhat in the past 6 months. When I was last looking at Servocat prices earlier this year, I think it was going to cost me close to $4K to have it fitted to my dob. That is a lot of bucks to blow just to get tracking.

Lismore Bloke (Paul) · #34 29-09-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgc hunter

Ooh the Caldwell...totez forgot about that funtastic compilation of visual pleasure! That's like, like the most awesomest supa dooopa catalogue evah! Teh NGC wishes it was as mint as the 1 and only Caldwell. Becrux shood be part of ze Caldwell catalogue, you all know it's right and totally keeewwll!!!!

Glenc will come gunning for you, he is not fond of the Old Master Moore's regurgitated Messier offering.

astroron (Ron) · #35 29-09-2009, 09:23 PM

From my point of view as a visual observer I describe the way I see an object as if I was talking to you by my side at the telescope

I have not posted many reports because of the lack of feedback.

If I was to post a fairly average image of just about anything in the sky, there would be heaps of mainly complementary posts

But post a comprehensive observation report and you would be lucky to get more than a dozen comments.

One of the exceptions to this rule is when someone posts a report on UFO's then the flood gates open

ngcles · #36 29-09-2009, 09:27 PM

Hi All,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lismore Bloke

Glenc will come gunning for you, he is not fond of the Old Master Moore's regurgitated Messier offering.

Add my name to that list too please (there you've discovered another of my pet aversions already).

Best,

Les D

ngcles · #37 29-09-2009, 09:35 PM

Hi Ron & All,

Quote:

Originally Posted by astroron

From my point of view as a visual observer I describe the way I see an object as if I was talking to you by my side at the telescope

I have not posted many reports because of the lack of feedback.

If I was to post a fairly average image of just about anything in the sky, there would be heaps of mainly complementary posts

But post a comprehensive observation report and you would be lucky to get more than a dozen comments.

One of the exceptions to this rule is when someone posts a report on UFO's then the flood gates open

All true mate -- but you forgot all the sightings of Nibiru

Well folks do we agree by our collective efforts to lift the profile of this sub-forum? Or, are we going to let the astro-imagers have it all over us?

Best,

Les D

DavidU (Dave) · #38 29-09-2009, 09:41 PM

Fellas, I absolutely look forward to reading every single word of these reports. I enjoy it a lot and a great way for me to learn. My hats are off to you Observationalists.
Please keep it comming !

astroron (Ron) · #39 29-09-2009, 09:42 PM

Ah Yes, How could I forget Nibiru

pgc hunter · #40 29-09-2009, 09:53 PM

Doncha guys know that Nibiru is as real as my love for Becrux

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngcles

Hi All,
Add my name to that list too please (there you've discovered another of my pet aversions already).

Best,

Les D

Lol Personally I don't care for the caldwell catalouge either......I mean by that logic anyone should be able to pick some random objects and have an internationally recognised "catalogue".

Therefore I propose the SABwell Catalogue.

Features of the SABwell catalogue include:

- Every single DSO ever.