Intelligent life is common in the Universe: Free Public Debate

[seanliddelow (Sean)]

Originally Posted by marki

Oh I don't know about the conjecture, there are definately aliens on Earth and some have enrolled in my year 8 science class .

Mark

Off topic, but are you a science teacher?

[JethroB76 (Jeff)]

Not having seen "anything strange" has convinced you that other intelligent life doesn't exist somewhere?

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by Inmykombie

Fair enough, but no-one else I know has seen anything strange either.
Maybe if I did see something, I would have a deifferent view.

Please enlighten us with what you have seen.

I have recounted my experiences on other threads on IIS several months ago, and received much ridicule. I will not repeat them here.

Dave

[Barrykgerdes]

Of course there is intelleigent life elsewhere although there is very little within our reach, particularly on the home planet. The Universe is infinite so there will be an infinite number of places where intelligent life abounds. No body appears to understand infinity or time. I cannot grasp it in real terms but I know it is so. We get many people defining the size of the universe but if we do define it what is outside?

Barry

[Inmykombi (Geoff)]

Originally Posted by JethroB76

Not having seen "anything strange" has convinced you that other intelligent life doesn't exist somewhere?

I shouldn't relate the " not seeing anything" with the possibility of life out there somewhere.

I am assuming that some intelligent life out there may want to visit us here, and make themselves known to us.

We will just have to keep looking until we satisfy our Human curiosity.

[casstony]

I think it's likely the universe is teeming with life, but I wonder if it is ever possible for a civilisation to evolve beyond our present self-destructive level of intelligence. To do so the aliens would need to have a passive nature, but then how could they evolve in the first place against other competitive species?

[sally1jack (Phil)]

I think there probably is life somewhere out there, growing under a rock or something. We always assume that life else where is more intelligent than us maybe is maybe isn't.
If they are anything like us they will wipe themselves out long before interstella travel is close to being possilbe.Look at us we can't even get to mars, even to get out of our solar system is still science fiction.

I think we need to fix up ours world so someone would want to come.We have 3 big problems as i see it. Poverty , Population & politicians. Solution Feed,Reduce ,eradicate
Phil

[renormalised (Carl)]

It's not our level of intelligence which is self destructive. It's what we choose to do with it that can be self destructive. It's social and political systems which are self destructive. We can change them, if we want to. It's our apathy and inertia which prevent us....basically our stupidity. Change scares most people, and therefore they don't want to see it occur. So, those people who want power most of all, take advantage of that, and what you get as an outcome of that is what you see on this planet, right now. We can change, but it's going to take the right sort of person to push it and lead it along. Though, we all have to take responsibility for what needs to be done.

That's where any civilisation, anywhere in the Universe, can make it. It has to embrace change and take responsibility for it. Not endlessly debate the why's and wherefores and then hide under a rock, hoping some other idiot will take the lead, or clean up the mess that they make for themselves.

[renormalised (Carl)]

If they are anything like us they will wipe themselves out long before interstella travel is close to being possilbe.Look at us we can't even get to mars, even to get out of our solar system is still science fiction.

That's another thing which we have to combat....defeatist attitudes. If you believe in something for long enough to convince yourself it's true, then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

[kinetic (Steve)]

Carl Sagan once did a rough statistical estimate of the chances
of life elsewhere.
In the equation, worst case estimates were plugged in to
all the variables.
Even when it was all calculated with these downgraded numbers,
the experiment pointed towards the universe containing life somewhere
in significant numbers.

Now my view is that if we took that as our starting position
and then looked back on ourselves we get this:

Life here, science tells us is the result of evolution of several hundred
million years.
Edit:Evolution also tells us that we consider ourselves superior to every other
species below us, and we take it upon ourselves to choose which
inferior species survive or not...basically on a whim.

Several hundred million years is just a blink of an eye in the age
of the universe.
Then finally, if that's how we view our species below us, imagine how
another civilisation superior to ours would probably view us?
And also remember that since the invention of radio transmission
and subsequent television and everything else we broadcast, that
the bubble of these transmissions is something like 75 or 100 light
years big now....

I'd be worried

Steve

[renormalised (Carl)]

Science also tells us that we consider ourselves superior to every otherspecies below us, and we take it upon ourselves to choose which
inferior species survive or not...basically on a whim.

It's not science telling us anything....it's our culture, our societies which indoctrinate us into believing such philosophies. There are societies and philosophies on this planet which are the antithesis of this....Hinduism and Buddhism for example. It's specifically a philosophy of Western culture that promotes and inculcates the sort of philosophy you're speaking about. When you've had several thousand years of such society and philosophy being taught to generations right form birth, what do you expect to see and happen. Exactly what we've got now. The whole culture is dysfunctional....religion, politics and society. It needs changing.

[sally1jack (Phil)]

Originally Posted by renormalised

That's another thing which we have to combat....defeatist attitudes. If you believe in something for long enough to convince yourself it's true, then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

I wasn't being defeatist i was simply observing human nature,I am a very positive person & changed my life so i am in the position help others,
I use to believe i was batman when i was a little boy , still can't find Robin though.
Humans nature is at question here, you think I'm defeatist i disagree that why in the end the world ends up in conflict on all levels
Anyway i think this is getting off topic

Phil

[Darth Wader (Wade)]

If there is intelligent life out there, they are probably disgusted by our species and are steering clear, like travellers staying away from a war-torn country.

[sjastro]

Originally Posted by renormalised

It's not science telling us anything....it's our culture, our societies which indoctrinate us into believing such philosophies. There are societies and philosophies on this planet which are the antithesis of this....Hinduism and Buddhism for example. It's specifically a philosophy of Western culture that promotes and inculcates the sort of philosophy you're speaking about. When you've had several thousand years of such society and philosophy being taught to generations right form birth, what do you expect to see and happen. Exactly what we've got now. The whole culture is dysfunctional....religion, politics and society. It needs changing.

Unfortunately science has been distorted to produce extreme views.
Darwin's theory of evolution, in particular natural selection, formed the platform of Nazi policy on race.

Modern eugenics is based on the same principles.

Steven

[Ian Robinson]

Intelligent life might be common every in this universe , BUT ....it's not very common on the third rock out from Sol .

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by sally1jack

I wasn't being defeatist i was simply observing human nature,I am a very positive person & changed my life so i am in the position help others,
I use to believe i was batman when i was a little boy , still can't find Robin though.
Humans nature is at question here, you think I'm defeatist i disagree that why in the end the world ends up in conflict on all levels
Anyway i think this is getting off topic

Phil

I wasn't specifically talking about yourself but using your quote to illustrate what is a defeatist attitude. You maybe a very positive person but that never stops anyone from having doubts about something.

It's fine to debate on topics and agree or disagree, but that doesn't have to mean that we go out and then start shooting at one another. The reasons why people do that is because they're afraid and insecure about their own belief system, even if they don't admit it publicly or even to themselves. It's when that is manipulated by people wanting control over others, that it becomes dangerous.

And this isn't off topic, as this sort of debate goes right to the heart on the survivability of any civilisation...alien or otherwise.

[Karls48 (Karl)]

Self- destructible intelligence – if we did not posses it we would be still living in the trees. I think that present trend to protect everyone against everything presents bigger danger for our eventual demise then all the nuclear technologies, global warming, wars and whatever fads that will come up in the future, put together.
I think that we are pretty naïve broadcasting our presence to space around us. If there are any advanced civilisation in our galaxy, it is like saying to them “here we are, come and get us”. If the laws of physics work same in whole universe it is reasonable to expect that evolution will work in same manner everywhere also. Meaning that any intelligent species out there will have survival traits similar to ours. In other words – nasty - from point of view of other species, but equipped with attributes for their own survival and advancement.

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by sjastro

Unfortunately science has been distorted to produce extreme views.
Darwin's theory of evolution, in particular natural selection, formed the platform of Nazi policy on race.

Modern eugenics is based on the same principles.

Steven

Precisely Steven....society (or at least certain sections, thereof) taking a tool and using it for purposes other than what it was intended for. It doesn't have to be for anything extreme, though. It's being misused right now to promote wholly dubious and erroneous philosophies in both education and the media, in many countries...including here.

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by Karls48

Self- destructible intelligence – if we did not posses it we would be still living in the trees. I think that present trend to protect everyone against everything presents bigger danger for our eventual demise then all the nuclear technologies, global warming, wars and whatever fads that will come up in the future, put together.
I think that we are pretty naïve broadcasting our presence to space around us. If there are any advanced civilisation in our galaxy, it is like saying to them “here we are, come and get us”. If the laws of physics work same in whole universe it is reasonable to expect that evolution will work in same manner everywhere also. Meaning that any intelligent species out there will have survival traits similar to ours. In other words – nasty - from point of view of other species, but equipped with attributes for their own survival and advancement.

Some civilisations out there will be belligerent, granted. But not all of them. Surely, in observing the people of this planet for as long as what most of us here have, we can see that there are a great many different ways of thought and behaviour present here. Not everyone is a belligerent warmonger or power hungry person. Given all things being equal, it will most likely be the same for ET. Instead of hiding away from the possibilities, we should embrace our curiosities and what it may lead us to. Because, if we decide to hide under a rock, it might protect us for a time, but someone at some stage will come along and turn that rock over.

[casstony]

Originally Posted by renormalised

It's not our level of intelligence which is self destructive. It's what we choose to do with it that can be self destructive.

Our intelligence gives us the capacity to destroy ourselves.

Our adversarial nature suggests we will destroy ourselves.

Our nature is the key part of our current dilemma. History dictates that we, the sheeple, will once again be enthusiastically led to war by an opportunistic tyrant. I say 'we' since human nature is the same around the world and any powerful nation could turn to fascism. It's always possible that things could be different this time, in the sense that anything's possible, but history usually repeats. I think we will likely be put to the test by the economic stresses of the coming decade.

Not to mention degradation of our biosphere.