The "Malins 2009" - Who Got What!!??

[astroron (Ron)]

Congratulations to all who entered and to those who where awarded a prize or mentioned in dispatches
Well done

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Here's a few shots from the ceremony

We all had a great time Looking through the replica of Galileo's scope was a hoot.

http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike20...in_awards_2009

Nice to see and meet lots of people there, till next year

Mike

[Jen]

Nice pics Mike

[iceman (Mike)]

Inspired by Phil Hart's post on his blog with his beautiful time-lapse of the dish, plus his own submitted entries, I put together a post showing the winners, their images, as well as the images I submitted.

Results from the 2009 David Malin Awards

Congratulations to all the winners - well deserving, beautiful pieces of astrophotography.

Thanks.

[Paul Haese]

Mike most of the images are not loading on your site. Not sure what is going on there.

As for the competition; I will not be entering again. I find it too hard to come to terms when one image is clearly a wide field image winning the category that is supposed to encompass higher resolutions. Just my opinion but the validity of this competition is in doubt in my eyes. It lacks status and given the angst one goes through to produce a great image, the method of judging just makes a mockery of its supposed status. I will be discouraging others from entering the competition too until this issue is resolved.

As a suggestion I would say to CWAS that a competition judged by a panel, with persons of that particular talent is the best approach. It will provide validity to the notion that this is a competition.

[iceman (Mike)]

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

Mike most of the images are not loading on your site. Not sure what is going on there.

Can you try refreshing? The images are loading for me

[erick (Eric)]

Originally Posted by iceman

Can you try refreshing? The images are loading for me

They came up OK for me.

[erick (Eric)]

I can see Paul's point. Perhaps Solar System should have a requirement that the primary object should fill a great proportion of the frame. Everything else is Widefield?

Then the conjunctions etc. are up against widefields of constellations, star clusters and other DSOs. That doesn't seem right either.

[Paul Haese]

All fine now Mike. Must have been a server timing issue. It happens now and again on various sites.

[dugnsuz (Doug)]

Here's a link to the CWAS page...

http://www.parkes.atnf.csiro.au/news...rofest/awards/

Go the Widefielders!!!!!!!!!
(Deep Sky that is!!!)

Doug

[Bassnut (Fred)]

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

Mike most of the images are not loading on your site. Not sure what is going on there.

Your not the only one Paul, I have the same problem lately, randomly, (and right now). EDIT, oops, I ment attachments on IIS (but also on Mikes site)

Maybe my upgrade to IP 8 did it, dunno. Ive also noticed, that if you zoom in with the favorites bar on (sometimes), the side moving bars disappear, which I dont remember happeniing before, perhaps its IP 8?.

[erick (Eric)]

Originally Posted by erick

They came up OK for me.

Firefox Ver 3

[marki]

Originally Posted by erick

Firefox Ver 3

I cannot get firefox to open any forum page on IIS. It will open the index page but thats it (I have the latest version). I have to use IE to access the forum which is about all I use it for.

Mark

[dugnsuz (Doug)]

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

I find it too hard to come to terms when one image is clearly a wide field image winning the category that is supposed to encompass higher resolutions.

Take your point Paul - not to take anything from the winning image which is a beautiful juxtaposition, but yes!!! Perhaps David is getting sick of the absolutely amazing planetary images you guys produce!!!
I'm glad he liked my effort enough to award it though, and the whole process was exciting to be a part off.
Doug

[iceman (Mike)]

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

As for the competition; I will not be entering again. I find it too hard to come to terms when one image is clearly a wide field image winning the category that is supposed to encompass higher resolutions. Just my opinion but the validity of this competition is in doubt in my eyes. It lacks status and given the angst one goes through to produce a great image, the method of judging just makes a mockery of its supposed status. I will be discouraging others from entering the competition too until this issue is resolved.

With all due respect Paul, I personally think this attitude stinks. I'm quite sure you wouldn't be saying these things if you had won the category, right?

If you choose not to enter again on your moral grounds, then fine - make that stand. But to then say that you're going to discourage others from entering the competition? Why? Because YOU didn't win?

There's a lot of talented people that *only* got Honourable Mentions who would rightly be very happy about it.

Originally Posted by Paul

As a suggestion I would say to CWAS that a competition judged by a panel, with persons of that particular talent is the best approach. It will provide validity to the notion that this is a competition.

So great - why can't you make those suggestions without the attitude, insults and public display of sour grapes?

You enter the competition knowing the rules, knowing the format, and knowing what's involved. It's the "David Malin" awards - not the "David Malin and panel" awards.

People who enter the SPSP astrophotography competition know that it's judged by public vote. The public vote don't always "get it right" either, but you know those "risks" when you enter the competition.

Every astrophotography competition always requires "tweaks" to try and get the balance right - SPSP are doing a great job with this every year.
And I would agree that clarification, or some work on the categorisation of images at the David Malin Awards is also required. I agree that the solar system category should be for higher resolution shots, but I disagree with the manner of your approach to this.

I do not agree that insulting the competition, insulting the judge, and insulting the winners of those categories (like you did on SCP) is in any way the right approach.

I'll be submitting my feedback to the organisers in a meaningful, constructive way.

The David Malin Awards are always closely contested and I enjoy it for the challenge of trying to present the best images I can – it pushes me harder to try to submit something unique and beautiful. I know i'll be entering again.

[Paul Haese]

So Mike you have to make it a personal attack against me because you disagree with my supposed attitude? That is not on either. I did not attack you, why have you done this?

The competition cannot be considered to be legitimate when this sort of judging goes on. Last year I considered not entering again on the basis that I thought David got it wrong. However, I gave him the benefit of the doubt and entered again. I was really shocked this time. Yes I wrote something about it on SCP, which you obviously monitor a lot to make it worthy of mentioning here.

I cannot see how this competition can be legitimate when the judge has no understanding of what planetary imaging is about. It is my opinion and I entitled to have it and voice it. I am sure others are equally shocked of the results.

So what if I have sour grapes. You clearly don't care if you win or not, since you have already won the category once. I put a lot of time and effort into the presentation of my images that are submitting. It also costs a lot with buying paper, doing print runs and inks. It makes me mad when an image that is clearly wide field is selected over true solar system images.

I know you don't agree with the way I addressed this issue, but I don't think you had to attack me like this.

[Peter Ward]

First up, congratulations to all of this years winners and runners-up.

As with most subjective competitions, there is always going to be some dissent on the judges final decision.

David (Malin) makes no apologies for this.

I for one have no problem with his selections, and in many ways prefer this to selection by a panel who can and do get it wrong as well (eg the Archibald's ).

CWAS has done a marvellous job of raising the profile of astronomical imaging in Oz. Literally 100's of thoushands of people end up seeing the roadshow images. Canon's sponsorship has also certainly helped.

But, if you don't like the rules, don't enter.

That said CWAS is also open to feedback so the event can evolve and give entrants truly national recognition for excellence in astrophotography.

[iceman (Mike)]

I don't see where I attacked you, Paul? I simply said I didn't agree with your approach.

What makes a legitimate competition? Surely that's subjective.

I don't agree with your assertion that David doesn't understand what's involved in planetary imaging. When I won in 2007, his commentary at the time made it very clear to me he knew exactly what was involved.

I'm not disagreeing with your entitlement to an opinion. I have no doubt that others will agree with the sentiment, and I have already stated in my post above that I also believe some adjustments are required.

I also agree that you are allowed to voice your opinion. You can absolutely do that, which you have.

At the same time, I am equally entitled to disagree with your method. It's not personal. I simply don't agree that attacking the competition, the judge, and the other category winners is a "nice" way to go about it.

I do care whether I win or not - I go to the same amount of effort and cost in printing and sending and entering the images as you and everyone else.

There was absolutely no personal attack in my post. I disagreed with your method and some of your assertions. I'm entitled to disagree too.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Paul - I'm not sure which image you are referring to, is it perhaps Phil Hart's image? I haven't really kept up on the David Malin awards, so the only images I've seen are in Mike's website. I guess I'd like to see the image in question just to sate curiousity.

As to your comments, I can understand your frustration, having experienced something a bit similar on another online forum (name withheld deliberately). I can also understand you not being happy, and not being prepared to recommend the competition to others. I guess my view point is as a consumer, if a business, or product is sub standard, you don't recommend it via word of mouth. Nothing really different here in this situation with the awards.

Still, why not consider entering future competitions, so when you do win, you can proudly say you beat the best? It'd make it worth it I reckon.

Dave

edit: Mike - without trying to inflame things etc, I did interpret your post as a semi attack on Paul's earlier post. I really do dislike online internet forums more and more because you're just seeing text, you can't hear the tone in someone's voice, their body language etc. It's not really an effective form of communication imho. I'm a pretty blunt person (both online and in reality), and that's just my personality. People dislike me because of it, without even getting to actually know me.

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

As for the competition; I will not be entering again. I find it too hard to come to terms when one image is clearly a wide field image winning the category that is supposed to encompass higher resolutions. Just my opinion but the validity of this competition is in doubt in my eyes. It lacks status and given the angst one goes through to produce a great image, the method of judging just makes a mockery of its supposed status. I will be discouraging others from entering the competition too until this issue is resolved.

[Jen]

some amazing pics there thanks Mike