Celestron's new EdgeHD Optics scopes

[g__day (Matthew)]

Pardon me, but I sumarise:

Slight change in secondary mirror shape, add two cooling vents, slightly improve focal system supports to minimise mirror flop = doubling of price?

I'd pay a $1,000 premium maybe for these small but smart mods - but double the price of the last generation of optics for these incremental changes is ridiculous IMHO!

[Satchmo]

I believe that the new Celestron design has a two element field flattener built in as well for a truly flat field.

Neverthless, I can't see a lot of attraction in shooting at F10. I would have thought that at least the field flattener could have been designed as a telecompressor as well giving an F7 to F8 focus which would have at least challenged the GSO's in the marketplace.

Perhaps there will be an add on lens set which will take it down to f7? Maybe the stock F6.3 telecompressors will work a lot better tacked on to a flat field instrument.

[Kal (Andrew)]

The Australian prices may be double, but the US prices show a 32% - 50% increase in prices. Don't forget that the optics also include a 2 element field flattener built in as well.

[PeterM]

Just add an Optec NextGen Ultra wide field F7 reducer, these are designed to work well with the ACF type scopes and I can't see why they wouldn't work the same on the Edge HD.
http://www.optecinc.com/astronomy/nextgen.htm
PeterM.

[AstroJunk (Jonathan)]

I use (imaginary) Hyperstar at f2 with my (imaginary) 14"

Works great (I imagine)

[netwolf]

Kal and I had a chat about this yesterday and its ridiculous how a C14 EdgeHD can be priced at $19KAUD thats about ~$15KUSD. When in the US its sold for 5-6KUSD. 3 times the price? Seriously thats just beyond absurd.

[Merlin66 (Ken)]

Matthew,
According to the distributors over here in the UK, the basic Celestron SCT optics remain UNCHANGED ie no tweeks to the primary or the secondary. It's the addition of the two element lens that does all the work.
Optec can do the same for ANY SCT for a lot less!! ( I used one of the NextGen x0.5 for a while - great piece of kit!!) but I don't think they can get the 40mm FOV claimed by Celestron???

[Visionoz (Bill)]

Hi All

My understanding is that the new Aus & NZ distributor is Sheldon & Hammond (Extra-Vision the previous one was given the boot about 2/3 months ago!)

Yes the prices over here irregardless are very very high bordering on the absurd and ridiculous for anything from the Big Boys Club (ie Meade, Celestron, Orion et al) Even costing an A$1000 for freight to the distibutor's cost for the high-end OTA would not even bring the RRP to such heights!!

It seems that the US/overseas resellers/dealers for those brands are NOT allowed to sell any OTAs, Scope/GEMs kits etc outside their stated "territory" eg; an USA dealer like OPT cannot sell directly to us Aussies!! This is because the Big Boys have imposed a restrictive trade clause in the dealership agreement with all their dealers - it works the other way too - ie an Oz dealer is NOT supposed to sell directly to say a US customer unless that person is standing in Oz terra firma, But who in their right mind would want to pay 200-300% based on A$ prices the way they are priced now!Probably only a moon-struck person!

Well as someone else who posted here suggests - it is good idea to go for a holiday and make the purchase over there personally and on average the freight costs would be aro A$1000 for something like a CGE Pro with C11 XLT

At least you get the satisfaction that you spent near the same amount of money or even less for your astro-gear PLUS a holdiay!!

Cheers
Bill

[netwolf]

I also wondeer if some if not most of these scopes are imported from Asia, rather than USA. I know in many threads we have discussed the high shipping cost from US to Australia, but how much of this gear is actually now comming from there given there recent ongoing changes in manufacturing.
The problem is also that for Celestron there is no option to shopp around, as there is one sole distributor. With Meade this is not the case. I have sent my thougts in an email to Celestron, will see what there response is.

[matt]

Originally Posted by netwolf

The problem is also that for Celestron there is no option to shopp around, as there is one sole distributor. .

And regretably that appears to still be the case with ExtraVision reportedly 'given the boot'.

It was my hope there'd be more than one source point for this brand....which might create some form of competition.

Sigh....

[Merlin66 (Ken)]

Like almost everything else, these Edge HD will be manufactured by Synta in China. So, shipped from China to USA then back again to Oz!
BTW the Distributer in the UK, is not quoting an exact price but states "20-30% higher than current SCT prices" Currently C8XLT OTA is 859GBP and the CPC 11 GPS, 3295GBP

[Visionoz (Bill)]

The cost for freight be it from USA or China would not make much difference in the context of say a heavy scope like the C11 and above - maybe about A$200-A$300 at the most and relative to the asking RRP over here in Oz land, the sums do not add up no matter what when compared to the RRP or street price so to speak in the USA

I would dare say that it is our low volumes in the market place for all these manufacturers that they cannot sometimes justify appointing more than one distributor in Australia - certainly if one thinks about it more, one cannot argue nor deny that the annual sales (in units and not sales $ values) for such as OPT in the States would perhaps be even two or three times or more what Australia can buy annually and that means "economies of scale" makes it even harder for us Aussie consumers. What a vicious cycle!!

I, for one, would not mind that the distributor and their resellers/dealers make a decent margin on selling us the gears, (for after all they have to eat too, like all of us, besides providing after-sales service and support for what one might say is a "luxury" hobby) - but cannot accept the highly ridiculous discrepancy in price when we have the internet to do a bit of cyber-shopping and discover that it is that far off the planet to be called astronomical!! (pun intended)

My 2cents worth

Cheers
Bill

[coldspace]

If I had 18K I would be buying the CDK 12.5 F8 over the Celestron 14 HD F11 any day of the week.
It still is a mass produced Cat. in MHO compared to low volume high end gear.
So if these prices are correct in Aust. I don't think they will sell any.

Regards Matt.

[netwolf]

Instead of one distributor they should deal direct with the retailers here in Australia. Given the small number of retailers this might be a better model. I think this is the model used by Meade. I dont belive Meade have one main dealer. Why have a distributor and the overhead costs of that for a volume as low as ours.
Matt, my thoughts exactly on the CDK alternative for 18K you could buy a lot better scope.

The landed cost of AP 5" refractor telescope is almost equal to the current listed Retail price for a mass produced C11. Now that is really absurd.

[Visionoz (Bill)]

Originally Posted by netwolf

.... Why have a distributor and the overhead costs of that for a volume as low as ours....

I don't think that it cost extra overheads to Celestron or any other manufacturer to have to supply the Oz distributor any more than one in the USA - it follows that it is the sole Oz distributor's discretion/decision to price it the way their business costs them to hold inventory, resell to the dealers, provide warranty (and hopefully not their luxury cars, holidays & perks etc).

How they can justify putting a RRP like what is currently in the market place defies "good" business-sense and customer goodwill and it would only be to their ultimate detriment and also to Celestron's market share as a consequence

Cheers
Bill

[Moon (James)]

If I had 18K I would be buying the CDK 12.5 F8 over the Celestron 14 HD F11 any day of the week. It still is a mass produced Cat. in MHO compared to low volume high end gear. So if these prices are correct in Aust. I don't think they will sell any.

My thoughts exactly. If it's true, the retail pricing seems way out of whack when compared to prices in the USA and the CDK.

[seanliddelow (Sean)]

I wish there could be a hd dobson.

[gregbradley]

At those prices a Celestron is competing with the Planewave Instruments CDK 12.5 inch, the Deep Sky Instruments 14.25 RC, a 2nd hand Tak BRC250 with money left over for a mount, a 2nd hand 12.5 inch RCOS with money left over for a mount, a TEC160mm fluorite triplet or a TEC160mm ED with AUD$8000 left over.

For $18K you could get a decent APO, mount and CCD camera or any number of good combos fully setup.

Makes for an easy decision though.

Greg.

[Merlin66 (Ken)]

The following has been posted on the UK forum:

Pricing and availability details have come through for Celestron's new EdgeHD Series http://stargazerslounge.com/images/smilies/smile.gif


Due this October are:

• CGEM 800 HD - SRP £3199

• CGEM 1100 HD - SRP £4599

• CGE Pro 1100 HD - SRP £9449

• EdgeHD 800 OTA - SRP £1599

• EdgeHD 1100 OTA - SRP £3699

Followed in December by:

• CGE Pro 1400 HD - SRP £12999

• EdgeHD 1400 OTA - SRP £7999

The following are due in early 2010:

• CGEM 925 HD SRP £4099

• CGE Pro 925 HD SRP £8699

• EdgeHD 925 OTA SRP £2399

[netwolf]

Dear Fahim,


Thank you for your inquiry. Celestron has exclusive international distributors whom purchase product from Celestron and transport it to their countries at their expense, paying all freight, brokerage, duties and taxes. They then mark it up and resell the product to retailers in local currency, absorbing any currency fluctuations. In addition to this, the distributors are responsible for developing the Celestron brand through media advertising and special event participation. Finally, they provide warranty/repair service for the Celestron brand in their respective countries. All of this results in higher consumer purchase prices Internationally than in the U.S. We actually make less margin on international orders than domestic orders -- it's not about making more profit, it's about making the Celestron product available to the global market.

Our decision to forbid shipping of Celestron prduct overseas by domestic dealers is a policy in place not only to protect our international distributors but to protect the consumer as well. Consumers are not informed by the US dealer that their warranty becomes void and they will be unable to receive any warranty service from the distributor in their country since they have violated the terms of the Celestron product warranty.

Best Regards,
Celestron Marketing


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Fahim Shariff (fahimshariff@yahoo.com) Posted on: Jul 18 2009 07:02 PM
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Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to advise you of something I hope you are unaware of and can do something to fix. Recently after the anouncement of the EdgeHD scopes, Australian retailers like US based ones have put up indicative pricing for the scopes. However the Price diffrence between the two countries seems excesive bordering on the absurd. I dont think its the retailer, but the having one sole distributor which is the casue of this.

For example the a C14 is priced as $18999 AUD ~ $15000 USD, the same scope on Optcorp in the US is 5-6000usd. Three times the price.

The C8, C9.25 and C11 all have a discrepencey between 40-150% price diffrence. And this is not limited to the new EdgeHD. All Celestron gear in Australia seems to be sold at these inflated prices.

Meade telescopes on the other hand are much closer to there prices in the US. The reason is that the retailers directly procure from Meade.

I would like your mangement to explain why this pricing is the way it is. I own a C8 which i purchased used from the US, as local pricing (even used) is much higher. I would really like to get other Celestron gear but i feel the Astronomy community in Australia is being unfairly treated to inflated prices.

Thanks and Regards
Fahim

My response,

I dont think i will be buying Celestron from local retailers any time soon. I will continue to buy used from US where possible. And or buy another brand locally. So in the end while Celestron might not be trying to profit from it, they will fail in delivering there products to the global market. Contrary to the goals you have stated.
If you cant control your distributors markup and margin then you place your product beyond the reach of most average users, and then how much of this global market will you reach.
For the same price as the C14 HD 18999AUD you can buy non mass produced high end optics. Like Planewave CDK 12.5" a TEC 160ED, Ritchey Criteons, Astrophysics APO's with lots of change to spare. We buy Celestron because of its affordability due to mass production. But now that is not possible anymore.


A SCT with Optec Reducer flatner and custom mirro locking would still be cheaper. Also you can do your own modifications to add ventelation.