IIS Almanac - quantification

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Originally Posted by kinetic

I say do it!
Don't doubt the idea, don't discuss the negatives....
Technology changes so fast these days that the whole concept
of IIS may not be around for another 5 years and the unselfish
efforts of the main players for the last 5 usually have gone unrecognised.

We all get something from this place, I personally would treasure having a
copy of an IIS Almanac 2009, even if it only happened once.
I was there, I was a part of it (albeit insignificant).
Great idea Chris.
My 2 cents.

Steve

Thanks Steve. I agree - let's just do it. As long as we don't have to commit to large print runs that might or might not be sold - I can't see any real problems.

[Enchilada]

Originally Posted by Omaroo

Call it that if you will. Take it up with Mike, hey? I'm not going to bite.

Bite? I've only asked a few questions here.

Originally Posted by Omaroo

Contributors would be listed and declared as copywrite owners of their own images. Intellectual property rights (style, format of the publication as a whole) would probably be copyright IIS.

Thanks.

[Enchilada]

Originally Posted by kinetic

I say do it!
Don't doubt the idea, don't discuss the negatives....

IMO. Any idea always has its pros and cons.

The originally question by Omaroo was; "I think it'd be a ripper idea personally."

I do think it is a good idea, but I just had some basic and legitimate questions here. The problem IMO I see here is that the word "contribution" does not necessarily equate equally to underlying "motive of purpose" or towards "issues of ownership."

Not stating such things often lead to deep misunderstandings and real problems down the track! (Personal experience many, many times. I.e. If you are sued for, say, printing an copyrighted image, then whom or who is liable?)

Really, is offering frank statements or questions (even if they are appearing "negatively") really so against the adopted TOS here? Also disagreeing or asking questions does not always mean to being either necessarily negative or "causing trouble" - even above the fears of some arbitrary deletion!

I do think it is a good idea. Sadly, logistics are usually not so clear cut.

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

For Gawd's sake.

When a "contributor" supplies an image they will give their express permission for us to include that image within the publication under standard copyright protection law - otherwise it doesn't go in. Simple. Mention is made of the fact that permission has been sought, and it's the way major publications do it - I know - I produce them. Why are you making this so damn difficult? It's a simple process and a simple publication. With all respect, please stop making it into a mountain! All members here want to see is their image in print. Sheesh! I'm not sure who you're trying to protect!

[Enchilada]

Originally Posted by Omaroo

...they will give their express permission for us to include that image within the publication under standard copyright protection law - otherwise it doesn't go in. Simple.

As long as that is expressly said and understood, well fair enough.

Note: If I write an article for, say for AS&T, all the material becomes the property of the company's publisher. You have already importantly said (earlier thread); "Contributors would be listed and declared as copywrite owners of their own images." If this is true, there would not be a problem. (It means they could re-use the images again as they wished.)

Note 2: I was once caught-out in publishing some material elsewhere, then lost the ability to use some of it later for another purpose. I found out they then owned it! They too said it wasn't a problem, it ended being a frustrating legalistic one. Once bitten, twice shy; as they say!

[iceman (Mike)]

Andrew you just said that Chris stated in the earlier thread "Contributors would be listed and declared as copywrite owners of their own images.".

That solves the problem. Why the need to continue to ask the same questions?

There's no issue here. It's no different than submitting any image to be published on the IIS website - of course the copyright remains with the author.

Chris, who has worked in pre-publishing for a long time, and me, as site owner and web publisher for 5 years, know what all the potential issues and logistics are, so please, enough.

If you have any further questions about it, I'm sure you can PM myself or Chris.

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

A commercial publisher.... IIS is not, Andrew. I doubt that contributors to this little community coffee table book ill find themselves subject to the same contractual arrangements they enter into (knowingly or not) when having their work included in a commercial publication.

I don't think that this is an appropriate conversation to be having within this thread. If you'd like to offer your input could you go to the original discussion thread instead please.

[Octane (Humayun)]

lol.

Whilst we're at it, can we implement microfiche steganographic technology into the design? So, like, on one star per page, is embedded copyright information?

Regards,
Humayun

[Jen]

i give you guys permission to put my name in purple text

Go for it Chris i would love to have an IIS book/mag

[Enchilada]

Actually. Looking at the images available in the site and the quality of the imagers producing them, such a book would be an attractive addition to any coffee table.
I had a look at an old photographic book by Hans Vehrenberg "Atlas of Deep Sky Splendors" and I am still impressed with the images taken more than thirty-odd years ago. What is great is the images, but also the little inserts showing the places and the boundaries of the featured objects. I probably learned more about the intimates of deep-sky objects than anything else - especially in wide-field images with many multiple types of objects.

Other than the minor issues I've previously brought up the idea is a good one, and I completely agree it would usefully highlight the so many wonderful quality imagers here. Their pics deserve more exposure. If is has good quality glossy paper - I'd buy one!

Pity the person who will have to sort out which ones to choose from the gambit available. I don't envy them!

Note: As a comment, an "Almanac" IMO is not quite appropriate. Perhaps something more like, say, a "Image Atlas" or "A Photographic Register of the Southern Skies." might be a bit more suitable?

[mill (Martin)]

I am completely pro almanac and would send in some images.
That is a splendid idea Chris

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Originally Posted by Enchilada

Pity the person who will have to sort out which ones to choose from the gambit available. I don't envy them!

That's the whole point Andrew - image selection is up to the individual contributors. They supply their best or favourite image and maybe one or two of their setup. All I'm going to do with these is put them through a stringent preflight (QA) process that will ensure that they are mechanically suitable to the task at hand. If they are not - I'll reject them and ask for another. Image resolution is only part of the list of requirements of an image. RGB colour balance is WAY different to that of CMYK - which is the colour model we print with.

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

I agree with Andrew James thoughts.

I think the images should be contributed by IIS members, free of charge. An annual calendar produced that contains the images chosen, plus all the relevant astronomical and emphemeris data for that year included and the calendars sold to help fund the IIS website. It could even be run as an annual astrophotography competition, with the best 12 images chosen across several categories included in the calendar. A couple of sponsors should be able to be found to provide prizes to a couple of the winning entries. I am not into profit going back to AMATEUR astrophotographers and if I thought the proceeds were going back to the imagers, I wouldn't buy the calendar. I would happily pay up to $100 or so for an annual calendar, if I KNEW it was going to help fund this website.

Cheers,
John B

[Enchilada]

Originally Posted by Omaroo

RGB colour balance is WAY different to that of CMYK - which is the colour model we print with.

Agreed. I use a simple program called iCalamus by invers Software. This does useful layout designs for publishing and colour balancing in CMYK, and is at least so much cheaper than QuarkXPress (some basic experience) or Adobe InDesign.
Happy to volunteer in regards any general outline or design work questions.

[RobF (Rob)]

Sounds intriguing. Happy to contribute and will watch this space. Sounds like some of you have fascinating jobs in the publishing world too.

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Originally Posted by Enchilada

Agreed. I use a simple program called iCalamus by invers Software. This does useful layout designs for publishing and colour balancing in CMYK, and is at least so much cheaper than QuarkXPress (some basic experience) or Adobe InDesign.
Happy to volunteer in regards any general outline or design work questions.

Thanks Andrew, I appreciate the offer but I'm in the business - it's what I've done professionally for 20 years. I develop publishing colour workflow solutions for major magazine and newspaper publishers.

I'll apply 3DAP-compliant profiles and separate images in Photoshop.

[Tandum (Robin)]

Chris, Any idea on a time frame to publish? I'm thinking ideal Xmas presents.

[Enchilada]

Originally Posted by iceman

Chris, who has worked in pre-publishing for a long time, and me, as site owner and web publisher for 5 years, know what all the potential issues and logistics are, so please, enough.

Tough audience. When I made my first comment here, I asked two simple questions. "Will this "calendar" have astronomical data too? What will/ should it have?" and "Furthermore, is it made for profit??"
Since then, all I've been is on the defensive.
When I first wrote this I had no idea of Chris' qualifications nor experience in the publishing field. (I too have some experience with graphic design and colour balancing of images for publication.)
Really, if you want some contributions (other than images) all I've said is I'd be happy to help. I.e. Planetary ephemeris data for an Almanac (which now seems not to be your purpose?)

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Originally Posted by Tandum

Chris, Any idea on a time frame to publish? I'm thinking ideal Xmas presents.

Not sure Robin I guess we're still exploring its viability. I think that it really might all hinge on the number of pages we decide to produce as this will determine the end-user price per unit. We need more people to indicate what their intentions are so that we have a decent sample space to work with. If everything went ahead quite soon, it really wouldn't be a huge job to create the artwork. Several weeks of spare time maybe?

[multiweb (Marc)]

Any contributions would be welcome I'd assume. Andrew would have a wealth of data to contribute if Chris and others can manage to add to the publications. Pretty pictures with a bit of Planetary ephemeris and other goodies would be a good combo too.