Australian Dollar

[Rhino1980 (Ryan)]

I don't know about astro retailers, but certainly there is a huge price difference between someone like Andrews and the rest... And what about fuel then? A great example of Aussies getting ripped off. Speed parts from the US, another great example. I recently bought 4000 bucks worth of Chevy gear from the US at the lowest reach of the dollar and it was still more than 1200 bucks cheaper after currency conversion, freight AND duty.

[h0ughy (David)]

Originally Posted by Rhino1980

I don't know about astro retailers, but certainly there is a huge price difference between someone like Andrews and the rest... And what about fuel then? A great example of Aussies getting ripped off. Speed parts from the US, another great example. I recently bought 4000 bucks worth of Chevy gear from the US at the lowest reach of the dollar and it was still more than 1200 bucks cheaper after currency conversion, freight AND duty.

Well you did consider and bought direct. . your choice

[mswhin63 (Malcolm)]

The point is David is saying is to weigh up the options. I am sure that many people are very experienced at what they do. My Experience is Electronics, others Astronomy and so on. Weighing up the options I would not feel confident to purchace something relating to Astronomy yet from overseas unless I was confident that there would be no problems later (ie: warranty). As far as electronics I can get stuff from anywhere and it doesn't matter.

I am sure Chevy parts (expensive) can be sourced cheaper in the US although it take possibly 1 crack in (eg: disc plate or whatever) show up 3 month later then there goes your cost savings. That is what warranties are for. But for most people with experience in a topic that will be no problems at all.

We also need to consider the population of Australia as well compared to US we are quite small so the market will be small consequently prices are usually higher. I am sure there are people overseas buying stuff from here as well.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by Rhino1980

I don't know about astro retailers, but certainly there is a huge price difference between someone like Andrews and the rest... And what about fuel then? A great example of Aussies getting ripped off. Speed parts from the US, another great example. I recently bought 4000 bucks worth of Chevy gear from the US at the lowest reach of the dollar and it was still more than 1200 bucks cheaper after currency conversion, freight AND duty.

Americans, up until very recently, have paid very little for their petrol. That's the benefit of illegally invading sovereign countries and taking control of their fuel production lines (and then refusing to withdraw your illegally based troops from said country).

I agree with you though - Australian businesses mostly rip off consumers with large price boosts. They try and blame it on the US/Aus dollar currency exchange rate, and then shipping costs, but even when you factor that in, there's still a marked difference.

The drawback to buying overseas (or buying from Andrews) is no official Australian warranty, from the official rip off merchant, oops, I mean distributor.

That being said, the cost of goods in Australia has went up far beyond CPI over the past ten years. I'm still paid the same as I was ten years ago, as is the average Australian I bet. But, that was the Howard government for you - all business and the rich, no ordinary everyday battler support. Not that the current government has been much better.

Dave

[Hagar (Doug)]

It seems the whole focus of this thread has diminished into a slagging match for Australian dealers of everything.

A point to remember everyone is you have the choice. The choice to purchase locally or to buy from overseas and take the risks associated with this type of purchase.

I have just purchased a new scope locally for $8750 and would not have considered such a purchase from OS. I want the full warranty that a purchase of this size demands.

If you are sick of paying what the local dealers request for items you can always opt out of the local purchase and buy OS with all the risks that go with a purchase of this type.

Another thing to remember is if everyone purchases OS then the local industry will eventually close and you will only have the OS suppliers to buy from. Look hard at what you pay for trivial little items of hardware from OS. $50 here, $25 OS + 30 US for postage etc. Great deal isn't it. I think I will stick to our rippoff merchants in preference to a US one.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Doug - I'll counter argue to that - maybe local distributors are just too expensive? I mean, If I can get a item from overseas, add shipping at retail rates, import duty, GST and still be CONSIDERABLY cheaper, then something is seriously wrong. As an example, it's not astro gear, but photography gear - I can get a 500mm f4 IS L series Canon lens cheaper from B&H in New York, pay for insurance and retail shipping, and still be cheaper than what Australian distributors are offering the exact same gear by quite a large sum of money. Better still, Canon lenses come with a world wide warranty, so there's no warranty issues. You'd have to be stupid to buy from an authorised Canon Australia dealer.

Basically, if local distributors want large markups, then they deserve to go bust imho. I'm not saying drop their margins to the point where they can't make a living. Not at all. What I am saying is that these guys get shipping at wholesale prices. They buy items in bulk, so get bulk buy rates. I don't get either of those. They don't pay a bunch of taxes either. All of them I pay as an individual if I privately import into the country. Given that this saves most local distributors quite a fair bit of money, then doesn't it make you wonder where the large difference (in most cases, not all) between me privately importing items into the country, and buying from an official Australian distributor?

Another example - when Vista came out, I was interested in Vista Ultimate. Price was US $399 (US retail), which at the time, was around $650 or so. Yet Microsoft Australia set the RRP to over $750 AUD. A clear extra $100 over what I could do privately. The ACCC isn't interested, to them it's a free market and it isn't price fixing. I completely disagree, it's BLATANT price fixing. Same product. There's no reason for it to be $100 more expensive in Australia. Don't give me that "support" BS either, cos it's *factored* into the US sales price already. If you want to argue that, take 25% or whatever of the US price first before doing price conversions.

The real fact is that the average person just doesn't give a you know what anymore, and they're stupid enough to pay whatever someone tells them to pay. Well, not stupid, lazy. I can guarantee you that if enough people stopped buying from local distributors that they'd lower their prices to be more COMPETITIVE. And that is the crux of my argument.

Dave

[Hagar (Doug)]

Originally Posted by dpastern

Doug - I'll counter argue to that - maybe local distributors are just too expensive? I mean, If I can get a item from overseas, add shipping at retail rates, import duty, GST and still be CONSIDERABLY

COSIDERABLY WHAT? Cheaper I gather. The desision is yours but the risk is also yours.
Retailers like plumbers and electricians can charge whatever the feel like and whatever they feel the market can bare, and probably will do so.
You can attempt to pull the price down by limiting trade with them but in doing so you risk them going out of the market totally. No retailer equals no service.
As it stands we don't have restrictive trade practices like some companies in the US practice. Meade for example, don't allow their retailers to legitamately deal with Australia. Another is SBIG.

Prices tend to reflect the ecconomic standing of the population/ market in the country they deal in and also reflect the size of the market.
Prices at a company like OPTCORP would most certainly be much higher if they only worked from a shop front without the internet, overseas and US continental market.

Come on!!!! We pay more. Fact of life.. All the slagging in the world won't change that... It may change the fact that we have local dealers who provide an after sales service and warranty backup.

I know what I want, at least for the bigger purchases I will make.
I don't know of too many local retailers who are rolling in cash from their exhorbitant charges, most are just like you and me, trying to make a living doing something they enjoy and trying to provide a reasonable service to us all.

[marki]

Doug I agree with most of what you have said especially in regards to larger items. Personally I keep my maximum to $1000 AU when buying overseas not because of warranty issues but rather I don't want the hassle of customs forms, duties and tariffs. But I must admit that the local boys cannot compete on things like filters, EP's and the like. They are considerably more expensive and need to fix this. For example I recently bought a astronomiks 2" Ha filter from the US which cost $300.00 AU (post inc). Locally I can have the same filter for $539.00 which is $239.00 more expensive.

Mark

[stephenb (Stephen)]

Well, this argument has been going on for years in this country, and guess what? they are not going out of business, in fact we have more local retailers than we did 25 years ago when I started amateur astronomy. So obviously the ones who have been "profiteering" are still being well supported by the local astronomical community.

I have always bought from my local dealer because whenever I've had a fault, issue, problem, or need advice I can go straight back to that same dealer who are always happy to assist. I am prepared to pay for this. Others are not.

I have recently purchased an Meade instrument for AUD$3699, from a local dealer. They are USD$1999 in the USA. At today's exchange rate (and not a few weeks ago when I suggest they were ordered) that makes it approx. AUD$2500, so that's a difference of AUD$1200.

I understand that the dealer would have to pay:

• Import tax/customs
• Shipping and delivery charges
• Insurance
• Warranty work - Also the local dealer does not get paid for any warranty work they have to perform, which means an extra price they would factor into each sale. I do not have an issue with this.

Of course I have no figures of what the breakdown of the AUS$1200 "profit" is, but it is none of my business, literally.

But this is a tired old argument. As has been said before, and you can take your money to whomever you like. We are very lucky to even have a such a healthy astro retail market in this country.

[Hagar (Doug)]

[QUOTE=dpastern;451477]Doug - I'll counter argue to that - maybe local distributors are just too expensive? I mean, If I can get a item from overseas, add shipping at retail rates, import duty, GST and still be CONSIDERABLY cheaper, then something is seriously wrong. As an example, it's not astro gear, but photography gear - I can get a 500mm f4 IS L series Canon lens cheaper from B&H in New York, pay for insurance and retail shipping, and still be cheaper than what Australian distributors are offering the exact same gear by quite a large sum of money. Better still, Canon lenses come with a world wide warranty, so there's no warranty issues. You'd have to be stupid to buy from an authorized Canon Australia dealer.
[QUOTE]

I wish you luck with your international warranty. Canon Australia probably wont touch it. There answer will be sent it back to Japan.

It is obvious our thoughts on this subject differ. Yours and my prerogative. I doubt laziness is actually the case.

Tell me one thing..... If prices are not set on demographics why do supermarkets here and all over the world change their prices based on the demographic and financial status of the area they are in.
The answer is because they can. They can ask whatever they think their patrons can be expected to pay and the likelihood of them shopping elsewhere.

High end items such as those quoted by you have a finite market, have high stocking costs and have to be imported as a rule.
These items usually cost more for these reasons. We really can't expect retailers who buy imported stock to charge direct exchange rates unless they are ordering in specifically for you. Some do, some don't.

People are very quick to complain about prices but are just as quick to complain when local distributors won't Honor international warranties.
A few of the retailers I deal with make every effort to supply me with goods at the best price, they also provide a very good backup service and a couple even provide a service to overseas purchasers who have no rights to expect the services they provide but being genuine and realistic about the position of overseas purchasers they attempt to help.
These services are well outside the requirements of international warranties etc. Check out your international warranty card, if you can read it that is.

Anyway, enough said. You buy OS and I will support my local dealers. Maybe I can afford it better or maybe I am just lazy and full of BS as you put it.

[mick pinner]

just a point regarding Canon warranties. Canon HQ in Vic is not far from me and recently l had an issue with a Canon product purchased from overseas and rang them regarding this, l took the item to them inc sales reciept and was told that it was covered by a worldwide warranty regardless of where it was purchased and it would be rectified in Aus in a reasonable time and it was.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by mick pinner

just a point regarding Canon warranties. Canon HQ in Vic is not far from me and recently l had an issue with a Canon product purchased from overseas and rang them regarding this, l took the item to them inc sales reciept and was told that it was covered by a worldwide warranty regardless of where it was purchased and it would be rectified in Aus in a reasonable time and it was.

Yes, but it's *only* for lenses, not camera bodies.

The best way of solving this argument is to legalise via legislation that manufacturers *must* support products, whether it was bought in the country or not. I bet my bottom dollar that item costs would suddenly plummet (and local distributors would still be making a tidy profit).

One thing I've learnt in life is that businesses will NEVER give a good deal to customers unless they are made to. They will always try and screw a customer for more money.

As an aside, if it wasn't for working conditions being legislated, we'd still be slaves, toiling for the wealthy and being paid peanuts, with no rights etc. If your world, let everything be a free market. It really works. NOT. Of course, governments pander to businesses and the wealthy, which are a tiny percentage of the population. A minority. I'd rather support the majority (average worker) any day. I'm quite happy to see the rich make a bit less, so that the poor can get a bit more. I guess you can say I have a Robin Hood mentality.

Anyways, I've made my point, I have nothing more to say in this thread.

Dave

[Hagar (Doug)]

Originally Posted by dpastern

Yes, but it's *only* for lenses, not camera bodies.

The best way of solving this argument is to legalise via legislation that manufacturers *must* support products, whether it was bought in the country or not. I bet my bottom dollar that item costs would suddenly plummet (and local distributors would still be making a tidy profit).

One thing I've learnt in life is that businesses will NEVER give a good deal to customers unless they are made to. They will always try and screw a customer for more money.

As an aside, if it wasn't for working conditions being legislated, we'd still be slaves, toiling for the wealthy and being paid peanuts, with no rights etc. If your world, let everything be a free market. It really works. NOT. Of course, governments pander to businesses and the wealthy, which are a tiny percentage of the population. A minority. I'd rather support the majority (average worker) any day. I'm quite happy to see the rich make a bit less, so that the poor can get a bit more. I guess you can say I have a Robin Hood mentality.

Anyways, I've made my point, I have nothing more to say in this thread.

Dave

What a stupid reply. Legislate............ We can really hold the world to ransom......... Australia would become the laughing stock of the world........ We would really scare them.
The first thing Canon and many others would do is march their offices straight out of the country. You could then buy it from OS and get it fixed where ever you can. If you could find someone who could stop laughing for long enough to send you your order.

Wake up and smell the roses.
You must be about to trip over the dribble. Try Maxwell Smart, not Robin Hood.

You have made my night. I will laugh about these comments of yours for days.

[mswhin63 (Malcolm)]

Doug, no matter what you say or anyone says you will always get opposition, reponding usually keeps the argument spiralling out of control. The thread is going far away from the original question. It is still ultimately choice and leave it at that.

There a people here and all over the world who will always hate the country they live in and for that reason they buy overseas. Fine there is no need to worry about it, everyone must live with the decision being made and they do.

Me I have to opportunity to look at prices from all over the internet from local suppliers and if they wish to be higher than the other, they need to live with that as well. Others may not have the resources, they manage.

I think we need to leave Anti-Business and Anti-consumers discussions on hold now, getting a bit long in the tooth.

As far as the Australian Dollar that is investors and government that ultimately cause it to change and there will always be scrupulous dealers not only here but in other countries as well that will take advantage.

I would say EVERYONE on this forum has the sense relating to Astronomy to make clever and resourceful decision, and should be supported that they have a wonderful hobby/ameteur lifestyle. My first scope was bought in Germany, turn out it was a bad idea, my second scope is brilliant, I bought it locally, turns out it was cheaper than anything I found on the internet anywhere. (Go Figure)

[DJDD]

does this thread serve any purpose other than to allow us to vent? not sure. maybe it does... i have noticed that three products now (at least), at a particular retail store, have dropped their prices in the last few days, which were recently raised... who knows- i cannot see their "books".

BUT, i will buy from this store, and other local stores, because they have been helpful to a beginner.

or just wait until the prices come down a bit... most people have enough gear, anyway, so just wait...


also, to those complaining bitterly- do you also write "Letters to the Editor' in all of the major papers complaining about prices charged by clothing stores (say, clothes made in china cost $7 but are sold here for $20-$300+) or complain about food retailers, or write letters about the poor price paid to farmers and the restrictive practices large food chains place on growers, their other suppliers, etc... I could go on...





sheesh!

[marki]

Originally Posted by mswhin63

There a people here and all over the world who will always hate the country they live in and for that reason they buy overseas.

Malcom, I don't buy things from OS because I hate my country. I simply apply good business sense and purchase the object I want for the best price I can get it for. Would you buy petrol for $2 per litre from a petrol station at the end on your street or drive around the corner and buy it for $1 per litre? As I said below the more complex and expensive items I will buy at home but I feel some local suppliers are charging too much for many items. Is that because of overheads, after sales service, greed etc??? Who cares it is still too much when I can get the same item for a lot less elsewhere (I live in WA so there is really no such thing as local suppliers anyway unless you want to limit yourself to skywatchers offerings). Bottom line, when the dollars up it's time for a little retail therapy and the US mob respond more quickly. I am unsure about the validity of the " stock purchased when the dollar was low argument" that is being used here. Most of what I have bought from OZ suppliers in the last 6 months has taken anything between 4 - 8 weeks to turn up which suggests to me that they are only restocking when they have an firm order rather then refilling the shelves when items are sold. Makes good business sense to me as they can charge at the current exchange rate. I have also found that a number of prices listed on the websites and magazines are not those charged when an order is made so make of that what you will.

Mark

[norm]

I've been a around on this site for awhile and it always amuses me to find these posts pertaining to local retailers, rip of merchants, free trade etc etc.

I have no personal view but sway to both sides of the fence. One thing for sure though, if a dollar was donated for each post from all these like threads and was put towards the IIS donation funds we could put this money towards some collective good associated with the hobby for all to share.

Having said that, I'd give it another hmmm 5 posts before the thread is locked....:shru g:

Clear Skies!

[Hagar (Doug)]

Originally Posted by norm

I've been a around on this site for awhile and it always amuses me to find these posts pertaining to local retailers, rip of merchants, free trade etc etc.

I have no personal view but sway to both sides of the fence. One thing for sure though, if a dollar was donated for each post from all these like threads and was put towards the IIS donation funds we could put this money towards some collective good associated with the hobby for all to share.

Having said that, I'd give it another hmmm 5 posts before the thread is locked....:shru g:

Clear Skies!

Ah a fence sitter... All you will get is splinters. If you have nothing to say why bother posting at all.
Sorry. Big moon, bored. Wait until the full moon to see the posts. ( More like this)......

[beefking (Nathan)]

well, off the fence here.
3 things, in my experience,
1. buying from OS is about cost neutral
2. it's not worth having a coronary over
3. being drunk is (rather) a lot of fun (but not too much fun, I mean, really, how could if be that good?)
4. she's a jar, with a heavy lid, my pop quiz kid, a sleepy kisser, a pretty war, with feelings hid, you know she begs me not to miss her

[DJDD]

Originally Posted by beefking

well, off the fence here.
3 things, in my experience,
1. buying from OS is about cost neutral
2. it's not worth having a coronary over
3. being drunk is (rather) a lot of fun (but not too much fun, I mean, really, how could if be that good?)
4. she's a jar, with a heavy lid, my pop quiz kid, a sleepy kisser, a pretty war, with feelings hid, you know she begs me not to miss her

nicely done...