Daylight Saving Time

[Baddad (Marty)]

Originally Posted by pgc hunter

Why do people keep saying that there is an "extra hour of sunshine" when referring to daylight savings? No, there is no "extra" hour of daylight, the day is not magically longer and the night shorter. It is nothing more than the time displaced by an hour. There won't be more usage of airconditioners for example, because the day is exactly the same length during DST as it is without!

I know!

[Baddad (Marty)]

Re: poll on DLS, I am prepared to vote but I am on the fence.
Whether DLS is in or out does not phase me. I adapt. There is no selection for me to put in my two bob's worth in. Thanks for the opportunity anyway.
Cheers Marty

[Ric]

I think it's great the way it is down my way. It gives me heaps of time in the afternoon to get stuff done around the farm. As long as I feed and water the chickens at roughly the same time they are happy and lay normally.

The cat tends to get up an hour earlier though and want's his breakfast around 4am.

Cheers

[RuthC (Ruth)]

What nonsense. I hate daylight saving. keep it out of QLD and get rid of it elsewhere. All you who have this notion of saving time and having more time in the afternoon, get yourselves out of bed one hour earlier and stop kidding yourselves. That is all DST is anyway. Getting up 1 hr earlier. Then do it and stop pretending it is 6 AM when it is 5 AM. Start work earlier, open shops start school etc 1 hr earlier and get home early to enjoy the rest of the day.

[Enchilada]

Dealing with wild and crazy Queenslanders is one thing, but the lack of understanding of the necessity of daylight savings throughout Australia and the rest of the world still amazes me in the total reckless abandonment of common sense.
Daylight savings is dependant only on THREE main factors. It is firstly mainly caused by the difference between in latitudes - namely, the further south you go the larger the time variances between daylight hours in summer and winter AND that the Earth's axis is tilted at 23.5-odd degrees to the ecliptic. So the length of daylight hours between sunrise and sunset OR night-time hours sunset to sunrise varies only on the apparent declination of the sun. If this were the only variable, daylight savings would not be necessary. However, the other third factor making this more complicated is that the Earth's orbit in not circular but slightly elliptical, causing the times of sunset and sunrise to be increase or decrease up to as much as about 15 minutes earlier or later (as seen in the yearly analemma).
So the closer to the equator the difference is not as significant as those living further south.
In the end it is NOT a kind of blatant latitude discrimination of people. It is a compromise on the mean latitude to make the daylight hours more useful for daily human eight hour work-play-sleep cycle. (We are habitual creatures based mostly on the sun for activity) Furthermore daylight saving is synced mostly to MORNING when the daily circadian rhythms when the electrical activity rises close to sunrise - when our bodies physically anticipating the new day. Its aimed to match human activity so it starts around 6pm every day of the year.
Now most Queenslanders don't want daylight savings while most Tasmanians what more daylight saving - so most Governments just decided on a compromise one hour should satisfy everyone.
So if you must blame something, curse the fact that the Earth is round, it is tilted on its axis, and our orbit in our solar system is elliptical! (Else try to get Government change it to eliminate all the complicated caused of the differences. I.e. planetary engineering.)
Stop wanting to blaming every authority under the sun because someone wants to maintain a delusion that we are messing with nature! Daylight savings is merely a compromise to maintain some normality in our daily lives - so it matches the seasons.

** There is also a significant difference in longitude within time zones, but to keep it simple I have alone brought up this for a given location.

[RuthC (Ruth)]

i still say, get up 1 hr earlier is all you are doing so just do it and stop pretending it is a different time. If in Tassie and you want 2 hr, 3 or 4 then get out of bed when the sun's up and enjoy more daylight. Keep it simple. no need to pretend it is a different time. Open up the businesses early to suit what everyone wants. Thats all that is happening anyway. so enjoy all the daylight you want by getting out of bed earlier. But don't cheat the rest of us by changing the actuall time.

[glenc (Glen)]

If DST is designed to give more daylight time after work Qld needs it more than Tas.
On 20/12 at longitude 150 east, latitude 20 south, daylight is from 4:47 to 18:07.
On 20/12 at longitude 150 east, latitude 45 south, daylight is from 3:39 to 19:16.
My friends hate DST at this time of year because it is still dark when they have to leave home.

[Enchilada]

For example, from Sydney latitude -34 degrees south, the difference in time between sunup during summer and winter is at maximum about 02h 20m If you add an hour of daylight savings during summer, the difference becomes about 01h 20m. (See Table below) The practicality of changing the time is to obvious.
Also Glen's comment that it is about more daylight in the afternoon is a bit of a misnomer, as the regularity of business, education, and narrowing the difference between sunup and the daily circadian rhythms is far more important. (The more daylight argument is more in keeping the Queenslanders happy and still wanting them to talk to the rest of us! )

SUNRISE TIMES
Mon AEST or +DST
Jan 04 47 05 47
Feb 05 16 06 16
Mar 05 42 06 42
Apr 06 07 06 07
May 06 29 06 29
Jun 06 51 06 51
Jul 07 01 07 01
Aug 06 48 06 48
Sep 06 15 06 15
Oct 05 33 06 33
Nov 04 55 05 55
Dec 04 37 05 37

For 20 degrees South, the time difference between sunrise in summer and winter is merely about 40 minutes.
For -45 degrees south, the time difference between sunrise in summer and winter is 02h 30m

Clearly the small difference in time closer to the equator have less need for changing the time than more southern latitudes. Hence, RuthC's comment "don't cheat the rest of us" I think it misses the point somewhat, as the difference from her latitude between summer and winter appears minor when compared to say Melbourne or most of Tasmania.

As for astronomy, the twilights make these differences even greater. If you want more hours of darkness during summer you are better of near the equator than the rest of us further south. In summer, Queensland for astronomy should be now as the "Darkness State." (Tasmania the "Twilight State" )

** There is also significant time differences in longitude within selected time zones, but to keep it simple I have alone brought up this for a given location.

[RuthC (Ruth)]

Originally Posted by Ric

The cat tends to get up an hour earlier though and want's his breakfast around 4am.

Cheers

Go with the cat. You'll get maximum daylight

[RuthC (Ruth)]

I don't know why people have to be so stubborn on this Whichever latitude you live in, you are still getting out of bed one hour or so earlier to maximize so called DST. There is no need to pretend 4 AM is 5 AM anywhere you live. Allow business freedom of opening hours. Start your day early and enjoy every minute of it. The sun will still rise and set at its usual time. I appreciate the chance to have my say on this topic here.
Ruth

[Barrykgerdes]

Originally Posted by RuthC

I don't know why people have to be so stubborn on this Whichever latitude you live in, you are still getting out of bed one hour or so earlier to maximize so called DST. There is no need to pretend 4 AM is 5 AM anywhere you live. Allow business freedom of opening hours. Start your day early and enjoy every minute of it. The sun will still rise and set at its usual time. I appreciate the chance to have my say on this topic here.
Ruth

My sentiments exactly.

A couple of hundred years ago local areas all used their own time based on the Sun being at the meridian at noon.

This lead to all sorts of problems in itime keeping so someone had the brilliant idea of dividing the globe into 24 segments each with a common time, slightly adjusted to allow adjacent communities to have the same time.

This worked well for many years til governments thought they could save power by making factories start earlier in summer during the war. The general public loved the idea of an extra hour (or two) daylight probably because most actually believed there was extra daylight so it became a regular feature. This was quite well accepted in areas where the summer and winter days and nights had a great variation but the areas near the equator where the day and night does not vary much during the year find it most upsetting to keep changing. That is why Queensland hasn't bowed to the pressure of commerce in the southern states, and of course the cows don't understand what it is all about.

Barry

[wavelandscott (Scott)]

Originally Posted by matt

I'd like it in Queensland...just so we're on the same time as Sydney and Melbourne. We are, after all, technically in the same world time zone

But is it the same year?

I do not like it Daylight Savings...

[marki]

I think daylight saving was designed to fool teenagers. Imagine if the time was left as is and the kids had to get up at 6am to be at school by 7am. Wouldn't happen and then theres the cows to deal with .

[[1ponders] (Paul)]

Originally Posted by matt

You know what I mean, Paul!!!!

[matt]

Originally Posted by wavelandscott

But is it the same year?

I do not like it Daylight Savings...

Fair question....it is a fairly progressive state...being the first to ever elect a female Premier

So...NSW and Vic will have to drag themselves out of the 50s

[marki]

Originally Posted by matt

Fair question....it is a fairly progressive state...being the first to ever elect a female Premier

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Carmen Lawrence the first female premier? She was around in the 80's but I can't remember if we voted her in or if she got it by default when Burke stuffed up.

Ciao Mark

[matt]

Originally Posted by marki

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Carmen Lawrence the first female premier? She was around in the 80's but I can't remember if we voted her in or if she got it by default when Burke stuffed up.

Ciao Mark

I don't think she was elected by the people. From memory, I believe she 'inherited' the role after Dowding was 'deposed' in 1990.

She later lost the vote...in '93.

I never said Anna Bligh was the first female Premier. Just the first to be elected by the people.

[marki]

Originally Posted by matt

I
I never said Anna Bligh was the first female Premier. Just the first to be elected by the people.

Yes I know, that is what I was trying to remember. I forgot all about Dowding, pretty forgetable premier .

Cheers Mark

[bones]

I don't mind it the way it is. When it's about to kick in, DST is a relief because there's an excuse to get up when the suns earlier as are the kids but get into the day as if you were going to normally. The hardest part is however, adjusting to the earlier time slot to go to work. When DLS's over, it's like I get to sleep in for an extra hour for a short time while my body clock transitions. I'm sure glad it'll be over soon.

[bsercombe (Brad)]

Here in Perth, WA it's crap. Not fully dark until 9pm in summer and pitch bloody black as 6am.