How can the price difference be justified?

[TrevorW]

"Caveat Emptor"

they chose to increase prices or not we who chose to buy or not buy determine whether they survive or fold in a depressed market

[matt]

Spot-on, Trevor.

It all comes back to the same old thing...shop around!!!

[marki]

Originally Posted by matt

Spot-on, Trevor.

It all comes back to the same old thing...shop around!!!

You still need to know exactly what you are getting. The cheapest price is not always the best deal.

Ciao Mark

[matt]

Well...one would assume you've done enough research to answer that question....or you get what you deserve!!!

[marki]

Originally Posted by matt

Well...one would assume you've done enough research to answer that question....or you get what you deserve!!!

I agree however, I would still like to see warranty and aftersales terms etc displayed next to the item you are considering especially on online shops. You often do not get this info until you open the box. If the cheaper prices have come from direct import and there is no Australian warranty I think it needs to disclosed at the just looking stage, not as a bad suprise when something goes wrong. The large descrepencies in pricing just don't add up in my view. For the folk in the east transport costs are much cheaper as all the astro shops are there. For us western dwellers freight costs are a major consideration e.g. if my LX 200 stuffed up I would pay $500 (to and from Sydney) in freight alone before anyone even bothered to look at the scope. If the faulty part was not covered by warranty that would be an extra cost as well as labour. In short the transparency of terms of sale is very important and should not be hidden.



Ciao Mark

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by bojan

That only proves that the point is perfectly valid.
After all, we, customers, have also some rights here, one of them is a right not to feel like a fool after finding out that we paid for something 100% more than we would somewhere else, or even next door. And I do not accept the formula that "I should have done my homework better".
Also, all other things (service, support etc) are very theoretical in nature.
I personally prefer to be served by the most rude person in the world provided I am getting exactly what I wanted to buy, at right price, then to be ripped off by some golden-tongue sweet-talking retailer.

Political correctness is NOT a good attitude, it wil backfire sooner or later..

You are absolutely correct, but in this day and age, people who run online forums are more concerned with protecting themselves than *true* freedom of speech.

I do find it offensive that the TOS basically protects the rights of vendors before the rights of us, the consumer. Given Mike's attitude to protecting vendors, and complaints not being posted against them, I guess iceinspace is not the forum for me. I'd rather have openness and freedom of speech anyday to be honest.

Another forum bites the dust (for this lad).

Dave

[Bassnut (Fred)]

Read the OPs 1st vauge post again Dave, and the rest is noise, random venting, as is your post.

I presume you mean Mike Salway?. He moderates precisely as I and many would expect and agree with.

[h45e (Anthony)]

We should try to organise "group buys" to try to make things cheaper?

[AstroJunk (Jonathan)]

I buy from Andrews Communications. Their prices are rarely beaten and their service is absoultely top rate in my experience. If they don't stock what you are after, go somewhere else!

Duncan - I don't know why some other retailers charge so much more for the same stuff. Because they can I suppose, it's a free market. There are clearly people who believe that the threat of sending a parcel interstate/overseas warrants paying more money to guard against. The only thing I have ever had to send back in 20 years was a Nagler Eyepiece, and the man himself in the US covered all the costs (very good sevice Al).

I have no affiliation to any retailer whatsoever, and this post is 100% TOS compliant!!!

[Tandum (Robin)]

Originally Posted by dpastern

You are absolutely correct, but in this day and age, people who run online forums are more concerned with protecting themselves than *true* freedom of speech.

I do find it offensive that the TOS basically protects the rights of vendors before the rights of us, the consumer. Given Mike's attitude to protecting vendors, and complaints not being posted against them, I guess iceinspace is not the forum for me. I'd rather have openness and freedom of speech anyday to be honest.

Another forum bites the dust (for this lad).

Dave

Be realistic. Why would these guys (IIS) pay for a court battle to defend your freedom of speech when a vendor sues them. And the vendor will sue the forum guys as they are the publishers of your comments. I would, who else do you sue. It's happened time and time again. It's easier to delete or ban the comments. Sorry, it's a fact of life.

Get a fruit box and head down the local park and shout your lungs out. See how long that lasts.

As per pricing, how can one vendor selling, say vixen gear, which he must buy from Tasco, an importer, match another vendor, an agent, who can buy direct from Vixen. Do your homework first. Or find a grey importer if you don't care about warranty.

[ColHut (Colin)]

Originally Posted by Gama

...Backup support is "THE MOST" important aspect of the price you pay..

Theo

Hmm YMMV - At one level if you live well away from your place of purchase - support, may be everything or nothing. If you end up paying for return and back again freight sometimes you may as well just buy new gear.
If you cannot take the problem item in for a quick chat and look - again that free after sales service may not be worth much. I think I am more likely to buy from a shop front with good and proximate after sales service if I live close by than if far away and but it will depend on the cost and risk to me.

Back to the original point. I was more staggered by the huge variation in apparently identical 12 inch dobs about 4 months ago - seemed to be $700-1300 which was a huge variation.

[iceman (Mike)]

Originally Posted by dpastern

You are absolutely correct, but in this day and age, people who run online forums are more concerned with protecting themselves than *true* freedom of speech.

I do find it offensive that the TOS basically protects the rights of vendors before the rights of us, the consumer. Given Mike's attitude to protecting vendors, and complaints not being posted against them, I guess iceinspace is not the forum for me. I'd rather have openness and freedom of speech anyday to be honest.

Another forum bites the dust (for this lad).

Dave

You've gotta be kidding me, right? I didn't start a forum for *true* freedom of speech, as you call it. I didn't start a forum so random people I don't know can come on here, bad mouth retailers so THEY feel good about getting it off their back, and then put me in the crap because of it.

We've already covered this argument twice in the last week, I take it you've read those threads and the reasons for the rules?

The TOS doesn't protect the rights of vendors. It doesn't protect the rights of the consumers. It protects me. Simple as that.

I agree with one thing you've said in your post - if you don't like it, find another forum. I don't have the patience to be reasonable any more.

I encourage you to see how many forums out there give you the value that IceInSpace does, *and* lets you have your so-called freedom of speech.
Or start your own forum, have your own set of "freedom of speech" rules, and see how long it lasts and how popular it is (it's been done, I already know the answer to that).

[spearo (Frank)]

Goodbye Dave, best of luck to you.
Don't let the proverbial door hit you on the way out
frank

[madwayne (Wayne)]

Frank - you took the words right out off my keyboard - I was about to type in the same thing.

Farewell Dave!

Hang in there Mike there are 5,000 odd of us out here who respect and admire this fantastic website. Let the occaissional oddball go and the rest of us will stay and be happy.

Wayne

[gregbradley]

I support Mike. I saw Dave post on the SBIG yahoo group a rant about Vista and those who don't like it.

Greg.

[netwolf]

If we think our own freedom can infringe on anothers and be happy with that then that is not freedom. The rules are there to protect the owners of the forum from litigation, pure and simple becasue that is the world we live in. If you can find any forum where you can say anything you like and not get sued, then good luck to you.

I agree that we often can get ripped off, but is that any diffrent in non astronomy purchases. And if we do get ripped of then perhaps it is our own negelect in not doing the research. Where is the personal responsibility before you start asking for fredom that infringes on others good community spirit in setting up a forum like this.

I have myself commented and created threads on similar subjects in the past, but i tried my best to keep the information factual and to some degree anonymous.

The better way is to post postive things, like bargains that you have found. That way others can shop with there wallet if they wish to.

The choice is ours to buy where we want. Where then is the infringement on us? We have the freedom to buy from anywhere we want. Do your homework. If you know you got ripped off after than you could have known that before. This is true not only for Astronomy related purchases but for everything. The fact is Why should the owner of this forum be open to litagation for our lack of research. Will you be happy with that and then will you be happy if the forum closes. Where will your freedom of speach be then? If you belive in it so strongly go change the law of the nation to protect forums from litgation then we can speak about political corectness.

I like IIS and to me its purpose is for individuals with a common pursuit to help each other and to provide a culture of postive and balanced guidance. And there are rules to protect those who run and own this forum, we who participate are mearly guests and should behave as good guests.

[JethroB76 (Jeff)]

Originally Posted by spearo

Goodbye Dave, best of luck to you.
Don't let the proverbial door hit you on the way out
frank

What he said..

Go and stick your head in the sand and ignore the realities of the increasingly litigious world we live in

[toryglen-boy (Duncan)]

Originally Posted by JethroB76

litigious

thats a good word, do you mind if i use it?

[JethroB76 (Jeff)]

Originally Posted by toryglen-boy

thats a good word, do you mind if i use it?

Talk to my lawyers..

[stephenb (Stephen)]

Back on track... Do your research and ask the vendors questions. People would not walk into the first car dealership and see the first car on the showroom floor and say "I'll buy that one!" People do their homework, and it should be the same in this hobby.

There will most likely be a reason for such a price difference, but you need to ask these vendors. If you are prepared to buy without much after sales support or whatever the reason is, then go for it! Horses for courses.

Just to touch on an earlier post where I have not had time to reply,

Originally Posted by bojan

I think the stores should be named, and notified (like what Bunnings is doing.. additional 10% off if someone is cheaper then them).
How else to ensure the competition (and reasonable prices) if they do not know for one another?

Also, it would be interesting to know the REAL prices for those things (the one you would pay in China, at factory door).
I bet you guys would be even more puzzled.

Walking into a Bunnings store with a catalogue from, say Mitre 10 or Home Hardware, with proof of a cheaper price, in order to receive a 10% discount on the same product, is not "naming". It is a simple company policy based on getting the competitive edge of the opposition. I can do exactly the same with telescope shops. I can walk into one with an advertisement from AS&T and see if they can match the cheaper price. Some store may, some may not. They is their commercial decision. Then it is up to the me, the consumer, to decide.

For example, I walked into BinTel recently knowing damn well they were more expensive on a particular product I was interested in, and also knowing they could not match the price from a competitor (and they couldn't!) but after a lengthy discussion about the product in question, I will be happy to pay that extra amount for the knowledge they have about the product, the support and warranty they were prepared to supply. I know that some people may not have that luxury of spending more and are prepared to take the less expensive option.

I think we have done this to death, and many will still not agree but I think it is fair to say that there are a number of factors which determine the final retail price:

• The initial cost of the item, taking into consideration what bulk quantity discounts the vendor receives from the supplier.
• Shop-front overheads (rent, employee wages, advertising)
• Warranty and after-sales support
• Customs and import duties (if the vendor is shipping directly from overseas)

Please don't shoot me down here. I am just trying to apply some form of levelness to this thread.