October AS&T

[jdb]

Originally Posted by iceman

Jason is it really necessary to post that? What are you trying to achieve?

Curious Mike....a fair question...

[jdb]

Originally Posted by janoskiss

That may be true, but a fair chunk of the supposedly all-Aussie mag, Sky & Space, is no more than a regurgitation of the articles in Sky & Telescope. That's why I rarely buy S&S. If you flick through S&S at the newsagent's after having read AS&T, most of it will look very familiar. Like you say, why buy two copies of virtually the same stuff?

really depends on which magazine you pick up first...when you consider how focused a market astronomy is, there is bound to be coverage of similar material at similar times...

like saying, well I won't buy The Age, because the The Australian will have the same stories....or I wont watch 10 news because 9 news will have the same story...

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

Originally Posted by jdb

really depends on which magazine you pick up first...

S&T is always the first one out where I buy mags.

Originally Posted by jdb

...
like saying, well I won't buy The Age, because the The Australian will have the same stories....or I wont watch 10 news because 9 news will have the same story...

Good example. Indeed, most people will not watch the news on more than one channel in the one night, unless there is substantial difference in content (e.g. SBS world news & ABC national news).

[dhumpie]

I agree that many of the stories are rehashed but the american version still has some articles that do not make it to print in the aussie version. I especially like reading Sue French's column (not that our aussie counterpart is not good...some of the articles make excellent reading) and some of the product review stuff.

Darren

[jdb]

Originally Posted by janoskiss

S&T is always the first one out where I buy mags.


Good example. Indeed, most people will not watch the news on more than one channel in the one night, unless there is substantial difference in content (e.g. SBS world news & ABC national news).

My point exactly, why would you buy two magazines with exactly the same articles.

To suggest that S&S regurgitates articles from AS&T is ridiculous...

S&S is all original content - some (in fairness) AS&T articles are directly copied from US S&T...buy copies of both and see for yourself. Greg B suggested one reason why US S&T does not ship here anymore...I was wondering what the other reasons are? Surely it has nothing to do with due dates (as he so subtly backhands S&S) - that didn't stop them shipping their slightly out-of-date magazine for the decades previous to now!

[iceman (Mike)]

I'm not interested in seeing an AS&T vs S&S slanging match here. And i'm pretty sure everyone else would be the same.

Let's just play nice and keep our subtle or not so subtle comments about each others magazines to ourselves, ok?

I have no problem with representatives of each magazine chatting on the forum and where relevant, talking about their magazine. I don't consider it advertising because it's in the communities interest and the community wants to talk about it. I've told Lyle this already.

But please, stay out of each others threads.

[fringe_dweller]

As Mike said, what is your point Jason!!? we are not stupid! we know what the deal is. It is an smart economical survival decision on S&T's part to do it the way they are doing it. methinks you have got S&S rattled here Greg!
- I wouldnt pull the flag waving card here - that will backfire on ya - i remember some old issues of S&S, pre A&ST, that looked like they had been half downloaded off the net by schoolkids (from American NASA sites) cheeky!
Kearn

[jdb]

Spoken to Jonathan too about it Mike?

I just want to ensure that when people with obvious interests speak out and criticise Australian institutions that a bit of free speech is excersised in the form of a right to reply.

This is your thread isn't it iceman?

[Robby]

I got my AS&T mag today.... alomost!! Well all I got was the white covering sheet with my address on it... arrghh.. It seems the posty must have taken a liking to the magazine and nicked it!!... I'll e-mail AS&T and hopefully get them to send out another one.
By the way the latest S&S is a very good read!
Cheers

[jdb]

Originally Posted by fringe_dweller

As Mike said, what is your point Jason!!? we are not stupid! we know what the deal is. It is an smart economical survival decision on S&T's part to do it the way they are doing it. methinks you have got S&S rattled here Greg!
- I wouldnt pull the flag waving card here - that will backfire on ya - i remember some old issues of S&S, pre A&ST, that looked like they had been half downloaded off the net by schoolkids (from American NASA sites) cheeky!
Kearn

If it is smart economics, then state that as a reason...don't say because 'it's in newsagencies by the due date'...

I am sure Greg B can speak for himself fringe_dweller.

[iceman (Mike)]

Spoken to Jonathan too about it Mike?

Jonathan isn't a member of the forums, Greg is.. If Greg had a concern about advertising I would say the same thing to him.

I just want to ensure that when people with obvious interests speak out and criticise Australian institutions that a bit of free speech is excersised in the form of a right to reply.

And that would of course be fair.. however I don't think people read "criticism" into Greg's comment the same way you did. To call it a subtle backhand of S&S is reading too far into it, in my opinion.

This is your thread isn't it iceman?

Yes, it is.. but you know exactly what I mean. It's a thread about AS&T. Just as I wouldn't want or expect Greg to comment in the recently posted S&S Oct/Nov thread that Dave47Tuc started.

[jdb]

Originally Posted by iceman

Jonathan isn't a member of the forums, Greg is.. If Greg had a concern about advertising I would say the same thing to him.

Nor is Lyle - so why drag him in?

And that would of course be fair.. however I don't think people read "criticism" into Greg's comment the same way you did. To call it a subtle backhand of S&S is reading too far into it, in my opinion.

It quite obviously was a subtle comment - as I suggested, I am sure puctuality is not the only reason.

Yes, it is.. but you know exactly what I mean. It's a thread about AS&T. Just as I wouldn't want or expect Greg to comment in the recently posted S&S Oct/Nov thread that Dave47Tuc started.

Fair enough too mate...as I said, just wanted a bit of equality.
I totally respect your decision Mike... thank you for letting me have a say !
---ends---

[h0ughy (David)]

I have to say that as an “observer” on the sidelines this match up is pathetic. As avid readers of both magazines and myself will attest it serves the Astronomical community no favours. If it really came down to a decision between the two I think you would both lose out. The new medium that you have not yet really considered that may spell the demise of both is the internet. I feel that both magazines serve a purpose and offers a choice.

I agree S&T need more Aussie content, but then I agree that S&S needs to be more regular and on time. Both magazines need to service the needs of the “Southern Hemisphere”. You both have different weaknesses and strengths.

I think (and that this is IMHO) that the market share for the mags is reaching a saturation level that either one or the other will eventually find it unviable to be sustained. That would be sad, and that is true! If one folds the other may gain but at what cost? Bitter, broken, beaten!!!! Things need to be more civilised and refined, controlled and adept at integration with a broad community who really appreciates quality, content and timeliness. No mag will ever fill that void totally, and that is why we do appreciate there being a few options around. Needs gentlemen, needs! We Need you (the printed media) to stay focussed on your task to deliver us, the reader, a product that is informative, timely, current with news and information and above all serving our community.

Why bother with a slanging match as Mike said “I have no problem with representatives of each magazine chatting on the forum and where relevant, talking about their magazine. I don't consider it advertising because it's in the communities interest and the community wants to talk about it.”. We do talk about your magazines here in IIS because they either a part of the community or are not in tune to what the readers want!

It is our right to critique your magazines. It is our right to bag the absolute out of you for your failings, and it is also our right to praise you for your triumphs. That’s what we Aussies really do the best! Remember our fields of dreams are up there, you guys help to bring them to us in a form that we can readily administer to or minds and hearts.

If you cannot simply leave it at that and either grow up and be mature about it then you will have to go to your room…………………………..and wait for us to tell you to come out !!


And I have never written this much about anything in these forums yet.

[fringe_dweller]

Originally Posted by jdb

I am sure Greg B can speak for himself fringe_dweller.

I would not dare presume to speak on someone elses part - that was purely my own take on things. I have no affiliation with AS&T whatsoever.
kearn

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

I, for one, hope Magazines never go completely and give way to the net! I like being able to hold a beautiful picture of astro objects, show other people a magazine and pick it up and read it when relaxing in the loungeroom.

My boys prefer magazines pics to net pics and so do I. If I show them the pics on the net they say "that's nice" but they spend hours on end going through the Astro mags and will stare at DSO pics for ages!

Long live the hard-copy!

[h0ughy (David)]

Originally Posted by ballaratdragons

I, for one, hope Magazines never go completely and give way to the net! I like being able to hold a beautiful picture of astro objects, show other people a magazine and pick it up and read it when relaxing in the loungeroom.

My boys prefer magazines pics to net pics and so do I. If I show them the pics on the net they say "that's nice" but they spend hours on end going through the Astro mags and will stare at DSO pics for ages!

Long live the hard-copy!

I agree Ken, there is a need for all forms of media and each has its place. It is much easier to flip open a mag and read then to boot a PC logon and retrieve it. i like to read the mags, cover to cover see the ads and buy the astro gear after a review or two.

[jdb]

Well said houghy - I just wanted to know why US S&T is not available on newstands anymore...!?!?! Greg B mentioned one reason, I was wondering if there were others...?

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

I do use the net a lot for astro info, but ya still can't beat the good ol' fashion 'mag'. It's there in your hands.

Interesting that AS&T mentions the Star Camp again!
Is that your doing Mike? or Greg?

Whoever, thanks.

[iceman (Mike)]

Interesting that AS&T mentions the Star Camp again!
Is that your doing Mike? or Greg?
Whoever, thanks

That was Jonathan, and yes it's very much appreciated!

Hope a few of the newer Vic members come down, even if just for a night of observing!

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Originally Posted by h0ughy

I agree S&T need more Aussie content, but then I agree that S&S needs to be more regular and on time. Both magazines need to service the needs of the “Southern Hemisphere”. You both have different weaknesses and strengths.:

Thats the most accurate statement thats been made in this entire thread.

Originally Posted by h0ughy

I think (and that this is IMHO) that the market share for the mags is reaching a saturation level that either one or the other will eventually find it unviable to be sustained.

I agree and I would hate to see that happen, I enjoy both Mags immensely. I am a subscriber to AS & T and have been buying S & S off the newstands since the early 1990's. I also have all 8 editions of Southern Astronomy, what happened to that BTW.

In conclusion:-

AS & T more local content is a must.

S&S learn to get the Magazine out on time.

CS-John B