Women in front line combat roles in Australian Defence Force

[Jen]

Originally Posted by jjjnettie

On the other hand though...
I've always thought that a battalion of 1200 women all with PMS could win any war before lunch time.

[PCH (Paul)]

Originally Posted by jjjnettie

If it is within a women's physical capabilities to serve on the "Front Line", why not?
But, I don't think that it should be compulsary. It should be up to the individual.
If you are serving overseas, eg Iraq, no matter what unit you're in, or what job you do in it, there is always the chance that you'll be caught up in Combat anyway. Just because you're a requisitions clerk doesn't mean the enemy doesn't want to kill you.

On the other hand though...
I've always thought that a battalion of 1200 women all with PMS could win any war before lunch time.

"Up to the individual" - jeepers that's an jolly interesting idea. Presumably we're not distinguishing male from female here - are we ? So, - how many squaddies do you think would rock up at the front if it were "up to the individual"? It would be my guess that a small camper van would be able to drop them off

Cheers

[PCH (Paul)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Indeed we are programmed to protect the ladies.
However maybe if there were ladies at the front the many massacres of innocent civilians we are forced to endure could be minimised as hopefully a lady may have better decency than so many men have shown is absent in their waging war... maybe the rapes of those poor unfortunate females in a war zone could be reduced .... maybe maybe maybe...why have a war anyways.. All the wars I have lived thru were nonsense... the current one has nothing to do with us thank goodness we will leave it behind.
alex

Interesting point Alex. I was horrified to see that they are now asking for more front line women in the UN and Peacekeeping forces that are deployed here there and everywhere, - purely so that they can help minimise the incidence of additional horror (rape and sexual molestation) that some of the male Peacekeepers are inflicting on the female members of the already traumatised population.

What must people (who do this sort of thing) be thinking of when they do this to these people (or anybody for that matter)?

My 2c

[GrahamL]

I think thats a fair comment alex ..the girls have an inbuilt sense of humanity that us "other" folk just cant get our head around ..Nancy Wakes bio has a good example within ( read this if you havn't).its one hell of a book !!..the passage details the capture of a known informer to the gestapo .. who was responsible for the deaths of many friends in the resistance ..she denied his torture outright and said You just kill him and be done with it .

http://www.convictcreations.com/history/nancywake.htm

[PCH (Paul)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Indeed we are programmed to protect the ladies.
However maybe if there were


... the current one has nothing to do with us thank goodness we will leave it behind.
alex

... Apart from starting it along with those other two dummies, yep we do have the luxury of it being in someone elses backyard

[Ian Robinson]

If they can keep up, carry their share of the load, are as strong and quick, don't complaign when roughing it with lads (pooing in hole in the ground , getting smelly and very dirty), and don't cause conflict or divided loyalties ....

[casstony]

In the interests of promoting peace, only politicians should be allowed in the front lines.

[Bassnut (Fred)]

I see a lot of politically correct tentative references to "equal pay equal work". Do females actually have the same prolonged physical strength required ?(is that what you allude too Ian? not that its the only quality required of course), im talking about right in the heat of battle.

[CoombellKid]

Originally Posted by casstony

In the interests of promoting peace, only politicians should be allowed in the front lines.

Now thats an excellent idea just imagine Howard doing a few
rounds with Saddam or the PM of Tonga. Bush doing a few rounds with
Putin (we all know who would win that one) or that chap running Iran.
Dang! I reckon you would make just as much money out of the live feeds
than you would out of the war machine

regards,CS

[matt]

Originally Posted by CoombellKid

Now thats an excellent idea just imagine Howard doing a few
rounds with Saddam or the PM of Tonga. Bush doing a few rounds with
Putin (we all know who would win that one) or that chap running Iran.
Dang! I reckon you would make just as much money out of the live feeds
than you would out of the war machine

I'm with you, Rob. Throw 'em all in the ring and let 'em 'duke' it out!!!

Man...that'd be funny to watch.

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Well as I expected lots of dodging the real issue and throwbacks to tired old reasons and excuses why women aren't allowed to serve in front line combat roles sheesh are we in the 21st century or still locked in how it was during the second world war or Isreal 60 years ago? Are there really still Clark Gabbles in the modern proffessional defence forces?

Comon ladies, stand up for your rights! Your right to better pay like the boys, more power like the boys, more capital worth like the boys and fight for your rights to really defend your countries ideals and not just "support" those that do...just like the boys!

Does anyone not think that some of the female gladiators in the TV show here in OZ wouldn't have the potential to be a great fighting soldier?? bloody oath I say!

How dare Australia say that a womans life is worth more than a mans! If you can make the grade and pass the tests why not be allowed to be part of front line combat..? It's your absolute gender equalising right

Mike

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by CoombellKid

...just imagine Howard doing a few
rounds with Saddam or the PM of Tonga.

Err? John Howard...?? he aint even a member of parliament anymore he was voted out remember? Oh dear...just a sad memory of a try hard Prime Minister is all that remains I am affraid

[Bassnut (Fred)]

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

Well as I expected lots of dodging the real issue and throwbacks to tired old reasons and excuses why women aren't allowed to serve in front line combat roles sheesh are we in the 21st century or still locked in how it was during the second world war or Isreal 60 years ago? Are there really still Clark Gabbles in the modern proffessional defence forces?

Comon ladies, stand up for your rights! Your right to better pay like the boys, more power like the boys, more capital worth like the boys and fight for your rights to really defend your countries ideals and not just "support" those that do...just like the boys!

Does anyone not think that some of the female gladiators in the TV show here in OZ wouldn't have the potential to be a great fighting soldier?? bloody oath I say!

How dare Australia say that a womans life is worth more than a mans! If you can make the grade and pass the tests why not be allowed to be part of front line combat..? It's your absolute gender equalising right

Mike

WHAT, how sexist is that Mike, sheesh, is female equality to be dudged by how they perform in battle? is "life worth" defined by performance in war?, you are KIDDING, get real, there are far more important qualities in society generally than how hard you fight!. It seems to me evolution has endowed us all with different qualities, equaly important but not the same.

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by Bassnut

WHAT, how sexist is that Mike, sheesh, is female equality to be dudged by how they perform in battle? is "life worth" defined by performance in war?, you are KIDDING, get real, there are far more important qualities in society generally than how hard you fight!. It seems to me evolution has endowed us all with different qualities, equaly important but not the same.

Wha? As usual Fred you miss my point do you actually read the posts carefully that you answer Fred, or are you on that Southern Comfort again.

Indeed many people think it is worse when a woman dies compared to a man. When was the last time you heard a news report like "20 people killed in a freak accident, including 5 men!" ? As a society we absolutely value a womans life more than a mans and I am saying that women should fight against this and make it truly equal.

There are probably quite a few male front line combat soldiers in the ADF that several of the female gladiators on TV couldn't be every bit as good as or better, at engaging an enemy in close quarters and as such shouldn't be prevented from doing so purely on the basis of their gender.

Mike

[Bassnut (Fred)]

umm, yes, no and yes (possibly).

Its OK Mike you can be wrong ,its OK, really, dont be embarrised .

Your dark, subliminal, metrosexual, alt-personality is plauging you it seems.

Males fight, the female role is as the "glue" in society, they provide social coheasion and mediate the male urge to knock each others block off.

The notion that the need for them to "prove" equality in battle is demeaning.

[CoombellKid]

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

Err? John Howard...?? he aint even a member of parliament anymore he was voted out remember? Oh dear...just a sad memory of a try hard Prime Minister is all that remains I am affraid

I was kinda thinking in hindsight, Saddam isn't even walking anymore. Still
I think it would be pretty funny seeing Howard getting a belting from
Saddam, it'd be like Merv Hughs in an army suit

regards,CS

[madtuna (Steve)]

There's a few tiny differences. Zoe, Bionica, Amazon and Angels opponants aren't really trying to kill them. They get mega pay and get to go home at night and sleep in comfy beds instead of a trench or the back of an APC.

Mental strength plays a greater role than physical strength when your next foot step could be your last

[jjjnettie (Jeanette)]

Originally Posted by PCH

"Up to the individual" - jeepers that's an jolly interesting idea. Presumably we're not distinguishing male from female here - are we ? So, - how many squaddies do you think would rock up at the front if it were "up to the individual"? It would be my guess that a small camper van would be able to drop them off

Cheers

back at ya.
As much as I'm for equality between the sexes, you've got to be realistic about this. Men are physically stronger than women.
It would not only be unfair, but dangerous to have someone who couldn't pull their weight. If you need a box of ammo NOW, you don't want to wait around till they've found someone who could help them lift it off the truck.
This is why it is up to the individual woman.
There'll be those, a minority, who I'm sure would be more than capable to perform their duties, and others, while willing to serve in this capacity, would be unsuitable for the job.


Originally Posted by xelasnave
Indeed we are programmed to protect the ladies.

Can I get a copy of that program? My husbands version doesn't seem to be working properly.

[Bassnut (Fred)]

Steve, all the better that they are at home to look after the alpha-male wankers when they get home and remind them of their pointless exploits. Unless of course our enemies are invading our actual right to exist, in which case everyone gets a gun, including the kids.

[Bassnut (Fred)]

Exactly Jeanette, skills for the job, in most cases male physical strength is probably critically important at the front.

Steve, I was being unfair there, I have the utmost respect for those that choise to serve in battle, its the ultimate public duty. Its the political reason to go in the 1st place that often is questionable.