Green Laser Advice

[asterisk (Geoff)]

We are now into the second day of the media focussing on the inappropriate use of laser pointers. A 'knee-jerk' reaction from our politicians is a distinct possibility, seeing a complete ban on the laser pointers, to the disadvantage of the astronomical community.

I would recommend contacting the relevant elected officials (Bob Debus Federally and David Campbell in NSW) pointing out that we do use these devices responsibly and that any legislation include a licensing provision for the responsible use of laser pointers.

I have attached a sample letter that IIS members may like to adapt.

[Rick Parrott]

Just wanted to get some feedback from people on these devices. I have a great laser pointer that I use to show friends the night sky, and I love it!

Today in the news however, we read yet another incident of people pointing these things at aircraft!

I would point out (no pun intended!) that I live near a very busy airfield, with training flights held all the time. We are always very careful with the device, listening and watching for aircraft activity and we don't EVER point it where it shouldn't be pointed!

My concern is that the Government is going to outlaw these devices, so that the rest of us will pay for the irreseponsible behaviour of others! Whilst I understand their reaction, I just wonder how you other star gazers feel about this, and also how it affects the stores that sell these!

[mark3d]

if 5mW is borderline in terms of usefulness what do people recommend? 10mw or higher still?

i would want it to work with a small group (up to say 8 people) in the suburbs.

cheers

[chrisp9au (Chris)]

I would be more than happy to register my laser if it means I can continue using it. There is a legitimate issue with lasers distracting pilots. Restrictions on their use should be considered, and implemented in a way that allows registered users to use their lasers in a responsible way.
I live 80km NW of Tullamarine, and have no problem with not using my laser whenever I am aware of aircraft anywhere within my viewing area. I guess the issue there is being aware 100% of the time, but heck, it's only turned on briefly whilst getting a general direction on a target, then it's switched off when I move to my finder. The responsible use of lasers should not be affected by the actions of idiots, but responsible users should have no complaints about registering their lasers, in the same way that responsible gun owners register their firearms.
We may be amateurs, but we should/can take pride in being seen to be responsible amateurs.
Just my two bobs worth!
Cheers

[erick (Eric)]

Originally Posted by chrisp9au

I would be more than happy to register my laser if it means I can continue using it..........

Here is what it entails in Victoria.

From the list of prohibited weapons in Victoria is the following:-

"Laser pointers
Hand-held battery-operated articles that are designed or adapted to emit a laser beam with an accessible emission limit of greater than 1 mW."

To be licensed, you need:-

Application for the Chief Commissioner of Police's Approval for a Prohibited Weapon. (Time and energy around completing that including the usual 140 points of identification and certified copies of identification documents. Having a suitable referee. Giving acceptable reason(s) why approval should be given for you to possess and use the prohibited weapon.)

An application/licence fee of $154 (when I applied in 2007) for a three year licence.

Meeting storage requirements of a "locked cupboard, cabinet or safe of sturdy construction" etc.

Here is the URL for documents:-

http://www.police.vic.gov.au/content...ocument_ID=139

[chrisp9au (Chris)]

Thanks Erik,

The paperwork? no problem,
The storage? no problem,
$154 for 3 years? We have a problem!

[Ric]

A good way to sort out these twits who shine lasers at planes is to tell them that they have to become members of an Astronomical Society and attend at least six meetings and three club nights in a row.

It would be to much for them mentally to do this and they would no doubt lose interest in the idea of a laser pointer.

A blanket ban is stupid and just a typical knee jerk reaction.

Cheers

[rmcpb (Rob)]

Originally Posted by Ric

A blanket ban is stupid and just a typical knee jerk reaction.

Get ready for it though. Its how the pollies all work when they can target a "small" group and be seen to effectively handle a situation. No different to the gun laws really............ Just because some people shoot others with guns the legitimate owners have so many hoops to jump through they eventually give up. The pollies say its good to get rid of them (the guns that is) but most of the shootings are done with illegal firearms. Why don't we need to get special permission to use cars after all I once saw a reference to about 70 people a day either killed or critically injured by cars. Now that would be a test of the pollies intestinal fortitude.

We are a small group and sometimes that can be a problem.

[asterisk (Geoff)]

Originally Posted by Ric

A blanket ban is stupid and just a typical knee jerk reaction.

I agree. I have received my first reply to the letter/email from my earlier post. My State Member's staffer was aware of the laser problem, but was not aware of the uses we have for them. She is passing the letter along to the Member with a recommendation that he make supportive representation to the Police Minister.

This is something we all need to do (especially at a Federal level for non-NSW residents)

Originally Posted by rmcpb

We are a small group and sometimes that can be a problem.

The more representations we make, the better our chances. We cannot just confine airing our grievances to this forum.

Cheers

[AndrewJ]

Just for info
Got my latest Jaycar dogalogue today
They are advertising a new <1mW green laser and specifically mention it being legal and good for astronomy
$100
Dunno when they will have stock
but lets hope they aren't banned before they become available.

Andrew

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by StarLane

Make sure you don't get a cheapie.
The reason why I have never got one??, the market is full of cheapies out of China with no UV filter. You don't want extended exposure to high end UV rays from a laser bouncing off your retina. I'm not talking about accidently directing it into the eyes, but looking at the laser beam in the sky as normal and on an angle close up, this still projects UV into your eyes. The more expensive well known brands have UV filters, apparently???
I value my eyesight more than that.

OK, time for a silly question. Do green lasers produce UV? How? How much? How do I know if a pointer is 'safe' (ie has a UV filter)? Any insights are most welcome.

[coldspace]

As the old saying goes,

Outlaw guns,
Then only outlaws will have guns.

They just caught a guy up here with dozens of high powered rifles, boozooka and the usual stash of drugs. So much for the gun laws. I think the sujestion of only club members getting them was good. One of our local shops up here just started selling 50 MW units so get one while you can. I use a 30 MW and it is very good in moderate light pollution.

Matt.

[g__day (Matthew)]

How soon will it be before folk start printing fake power ratings - I see alot of < 1 mw rating signs comming out - and how would the police test power rating in the field? If folk simply remove their power rating stickers or swap them across lasers of different ratings - how would police determine if one was near, below of above an arbitary limit?

[citivolus (Ric)]

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

OK, time for a silly question. Do green lasers produce UV? How? How much? How do I know if a pointer is 'safe' (ie has a UV filter)? Any insights are most welcome.

Green lasers use frequency doubling in an interesting process to convert an 808nm IR source light to 1064nm, which is then doubled in frequency to 532nm. If they don't have in IR filter in place, that IR light will pass and actually has a much higher intensity than the green light that you see.

Note that this is IR light, not UV. You could detect it using a suitable camera, but it will need to pass IR and block visible light. I'll give mine a try using one of my IR capable cameras. It needs to pass light at both 808 and 1064nm if you want to be certain.

[citivolus (Ric)]

Originally Posted by g__day

How soon will it be before folk start printing fake power ratings - I see alot of < 1 mw rating signs comming out - and how would the police test power rating in the field? If folk simply remove their power rating stickers or swap them across lasers of different ratings - how would police determine if one was near, below of above an arbitary limit?

Most of the manufacturers can't even agree on what the real output from the laser is, and many of them are too sloppy to care. Granted, many of the 20mw lasers floating around out there these days are probably more likely 5mw being oversold anyway...

Someone could theoretically employ many tricks to disguise the output of their laser, including throwing in a dud set of batteries, putting in an in line filter, to as you suggest changing the labels. Short of the police getting laser testing gear (unlikely) I think they will just have to accept the class that is written on the label.

[g__day (Matthew)]

Exactly - I am aware many lasers don't reach near their stated limit - but if a laser label is missing or obscured - what to do?

[citivolus (Ric)]

The labels were of such poor quality on all but one of my laser pointers that they have fallen off. I guess maybe I should pick some up just to be safe.

Edit: They are all class II, really. Well, except for the IIIa with messed up collimation that might as well be categorised as class 1.