"Rule 4" - 2008 Astro Imaging competition at SPSP - part 1

[Greg Priestley]

I would reply to some of your comments but I know we'll be just get stuck in a circular loop - I think we need to agree to disagree. Enough said.

It's a shame you're not entering because of the possibility of hypothetical entrants. Your website has some great shots and I though we might of had another imager who can give Mike Sidonio a run for his money (not to say that there aren't others already doing this). If Mike wins again, we'll have a different outcry about the rules ....

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

First of all let me make it very clear I am perfectly happy with the rules set for this year now and we need to all just accept this.

I do think that for next year however, Rob does have very valid points that may be worth considering? (or not, it isn't a huge issue really)

It is also my opinion that images composed of data "ordered" from a commercially operating telescope or observatory should probably not be allowed. Rob's game fishing analogy is actually a good one IMO.

Yes, last year I used some (free) data, supplied to me by an amateur astronomer and with their permission, to incorporate into two of my 6 images I entered and that practice is now not allowed - fair enough, it's the same for everyone now and clearly expressed in the rules. I do feel however that if SPSP want's to keep this as an "amateur" imaging competition, images composed from data "purchased to order" with comercially setup and operated equipment should not be allowed unless there is a completely seperate category for them and they are also judged completely seperately.

Having the equipment details on the image will do little to sway the first impressions of many non imager judges - this is IMO just a fact, many people would not know the difference between a 12.5" RC and a 12" LX200 nor will they recognise the difference between an STL11000 or Cannon 400D however one image will have used purchased image data taken on a completely proffessional telescope while the other was data obtained from a portable private setup. Believe me these two outfits will produce very different final results with similar processing by the same person yet the LX200 owner had to setup and callibrate their equipment themselves and make sure everything worked in gathering all the data while the other entrant had to do basically nothing at all to acquire the data.

My point is that allowing the use of commercial setups in another part of the globe that will gather all the data for you and deliver it to you in pristene condition without you doing anything at all (other than filling in the order form) and then judging images built form this data alongside other amateur work is not an amateur imaging competiton anymore and is far more out of the spirit of an amateur imaging contest than what I did last year.

Again, not being vitriolic at all here or even annoyed, just my thoughts

Cheers

Mike

[robgreaves]

Nice to hear your input, Mike. I'm glad my thoughts are not entirely alone. Also, those that have PM'd me on here with their support and agreement - why not post instead? Make your opinions heard!

Regards,
Rob.

[Bassnut (Fred)]

Every year there is a drama over the rules, every year new out of left field issue smacks the organiser. One entrant even threatened legal action some years ago !!!!. It gets harder and harder to find someone to volanteer to organise the Image comp, can you see why now?. I know for a fact Greg has agonised for a long time over the rules and asked many for opinions before deciding on the rules. No matter what the organiser does, he is crucified. Times change and the comp attempts to allow for trends, but its just too late to change the rules now (not that they need changing, whatever). Now is the time, untill the 2009 comp, for disucussion on new rules, for the 2009 comp.

IMO the killer leveler is that all the ppl present at SPSP get to vote. I dont agree that the ppl that take the effort to go to the SPSP star party arnt aware of the issues discussed here. They are passionate about astronomy and probably all "do it yourselfers", its the Aussie way, they understand.

I think the number of rented megascope entrys would be very small indeed, and given the opinions in this thread, do you really think they have a chance in hell when ppl read the image gear profile??. The image would have to be something exceptional indeed to stand any chance at all, as it should.

The SPSP needs to cater for all types of entry, and let the hoi polloi decide whats worthy, I for one simply enjoy seeing entrys of all kinds, including mega scope stunners, it adds to the experience, Id hate to only see 100 fuzzy M42s ;-). For the SPSP, the 300 odd participants decide, what ever the rules, how fair can it be?. Dont like the rules?, vote accordingly ;-).

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Hi Fred

Don't be too concerned over posts on a forum like this, as you know they often read as complaints and critisisms when they are just thoughts and ideas. The medium of forums is easily over rated and people can sound passionate when they are just typing away, once you talk in person the mood can be very different. My point here is that Greg shouldn't get p'd off at any of these comments as they are simply that, comments and no reflection on him at all. Many people will still enter the competiton (probably more than last year) and quite happily, oblivious to all the mistakenly interpreted whoo hah here more of a concern for Greg might be the available space to display all the entries properly, you know, so that we don't have some entries at people's feet getting covered with dust while some are above the head out of view...?... (ooops, sorry Greg )

As Astro Systeme Austria's company mission statement reads "Astrophotography should be fun"...errr?....hmm?...in my experience, not a great mission statement for them I have to say though

Mike