Vista Death Watch

[programmer]

Originally Posted by Omaroo

I'm a Mac and Unix/Linux user. I've been lulled back to Microsoft for a while BECAUSE I find Vista OK.

And Windows users bow in gratitude
/sarcasm

XP and everything before it were rubbish operating systems

LOL Don't even know where to begin on this, so I won't.

I'm sure I"ll bite sooner or later though.

[DJDD]

I quite liked Win98 and as long as you accepted a reboot was required twice a day then all was good. I would argue that very little productivity was lost because of it.

I just bought a new HP laptop running vista for work- i need to test Vista against the applications we run, as well as network policies. I would love to have stayed with XP- I thought XP was great- but DELL and HP will be halting delivery of XP in the new year so i do not want to get caught flat footed.

I quite like the sidebar gadgets and Aero, although these are not earth shattering.

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Originally Posted by programmer

And Windows users bow in gratitude
/sarcasm


LOL Don't even know where to begin on this, so I won't.

I'm sure I"ll bite sooner or later though.

1) No need to bow - just acknowledge that people who never thought much of Windows now might. That's a good thing, yeah?

2) OK - I'll rephrase: "inadequate". There - that's better. LOL

[programmer]

Originally Posted by Omaroo

1) No need to bow - just acknowledge that people who never thought much of Windows now might. That's a good thing, yeah?

2) OK - I'll rephrase: "inadequate". There - that's better. LOL

Of course, cooperative multitasking, which Windows ditched with Windows 95, was not 'inadequate' for Macs up until recently? At least Microsoft can write their own operating systems I recently ported a 10 year old piece of commercial 'multithreaded' Mac software to Windows .

Good on you though for encouraging use of Vista, and not mentioning the words 'WinDoze', 'Micro$oft' or 'Bill' in your posts!

[programmer]

Originally Posted by OneOfOne

customers want to use a version of our software that was released in 2004

2004, that's almost brand spanking new in my book!

Will the one character change stop it working under XP? Otherwise, surely a conditional build would work, then you still only have one codebase.

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Originally Posted by programmer

Of course, cooperative multitasking, which Windows ditched with Windows 95, was not 'inadequate' for Macs up until recently? At least Microsoft can write their own operating systems I recently ported a 10 year old piece of commercial 'multithreaded' Mac software to Windows .

Good on you though for encouraging use of Vista, and not mentioning the words 'WinDoze', 'Micro$oft' or 'Bill' in your posts!

I've never had a "favourite" OS as such - which is where people get all defensive about their personally-endorsed choice. I believe that each OS is great in its own way - and has strengths and weaknesses just like everything else. I tend to use the best OS for a particular job - and don't make the mistake of shoving round pegs into square holes.

System 9 wasn't brilliant at talking to anything non-Mac, and yes, some aspects were a bit uncooperative with the rest of the world (resource forks for example) - BUT - running on a Mac, Mac-based software has always been very good - especially in the high-end graphics industry and advertising, where Windows is still playing catchup.

I don't think that Vista is a "WinDoze", but rather an evolution - and a really good one. As a development manager I have to ensure that everything my guys write is as cross-compatible as it can be from environment to environment - and finally Microsoft is playing nice by conforming to, and endorsing established standards.

I was one of three blokes working at IBM in 1983 that physically unwrapped the first-ever PC into Australia. I know just how far Microsoft has come.

[programmer]

Originally Posted by Omaroo

I've never had a "favourite" OS as such - which is where people get all defensive about their personally-endorsed choice.

I did.. Intuition (AmigaOS)

very good - especially in the high-end graphics industry and advertising, where Windows is still playing catchup.

I think you mean the 'high-end graphics industry' software vendors are playing catchup. This has nothing to do with the OS. Anyway this point is oft-touted and debateable IMHO.

As a development manager I have to ensure that everything my guys write is as cross-compatible as it can be from environment to environment

Which environments are we talking?

I was one of three blokes working at IBM in 1983 that physically unwrapped the first-ever PC into Australia. I know just how far Microsoft has come.

I was an Apple user in 81 and went to the Mac pre-launch at AUSOM in 83 (from memory). Some clown called out 'but can it play games' [laughter]. The answer is still 'no'

I also still remember this exchange:

my Dad: 'hey I just read IBM are going to make their own personal computer. That will change everything'
me: (fooling around with 300 baud modem) 'yea right'

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Originally Posted by programmer

I also still remember this exchange:

my Dad: 'hey I just read IBM are going to make their own personal computer. That will change everything'
me: (fooling around with 300 baud modem) 'yea right'

LOL! Yep - that's what we (at the time) mainframe techs said when we opened the box. I think the line went "Armonk have got to be kidding - this thing will never replace the mainframe!"

I agree about AmigaOS. I currently have a 500, 1000 and two 1200's (one in a tower).

[programmer]

Originally Posted by Omaroo

I agree about AmigaOS. I currently have a 500, 100 and two 1200's (one in a tower).

You left out a zero from the 'one and only' Amiga, the 1000. I still have my 120V American version from before they were released here. Ah, Amiga.. Don't start me
Seriously off-topic.

Vista will not die, and Microsoft is getting unfairly bashed over it IMHO. Going back to XP would be a big step backward. I'd suggest anyone getting a new pc to not opt for XP.

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Originally Posted by programmer

You left out a zero from the 'one and only' Amiga, the 1000. I still have my 120V American version from before they were released here. Ah, Amiga.. Don't start me

Whoops - typo.... fixed! Thanks Yup - a great box. While the 1000 was the quintessential Amiga, I still think that the 500 was revolutionary though, and brought Amiga computing into more households faster.

I think I'll fire one up this arvo in celebration....

[programmer]

Originally Posted by Omaroo

Whoops - typo.... fixed! Thanks Yup - a great box. While the 1000 was the quintessential Amiga, I still think that the 500 was revolutionary though, and brought Amiga computing into more households faster.

I think I'll fire one up this arvo in celebration....

I would too except for a missing monitor (1080?) cable. Let me know if you have a spare

Or, I'll just go an emulator. Faster too

[Glenhuon (Bill)]

I'm probably typical of most users who have tried Vista and reverted to XP. I installed Premium on my computer here, for about 24hrs. There were so many hardware and software issues that I went back to XP. I've had them all, from MSDos 3 onwards and every one has had issues initially. My copy now resides in a box somewhere in the shed waiting for the service packs (AKA bug fixes) and other software upgrades to come out. Might give it a go again in about 12 months or so. If your system is working OK as is, why change.

[OneOfOne (Trevor)]

Originally Posted by programmer

2004, that's almost brand spanking new in my book!

Will the one character change stop it working under XP? Otherwise, surely a conditional build would work, then you still only have one codebase.

Actually the change was made to a branch of the 2004 code, it simply allowed for four decimal places in a field in a delimited text file. Hopefully the 2004a release is dead! Forgive us code jockies for interrupting the flow...

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Why doesn't a competition brand come out?

Why do we HAVE TO use only Microsoft???

Yeah, I've heard of Linux, but does it come in a box, just install, and use?

Surely some other company must be able to produce something like windows!!!!

[snowyskiesau]

Originally Posted by ballaratdragons

Why doesn't a competition brand come out?

Why do we HAVE TO use only Microsoft???

Yeah, I've heard of Linux, but does it come in a box, just install, and use?

Surely some other company must be able to produce something like windows!!!!

Linux is easy to install and use, what puts most people off is that they can't run the Windows programs they already have.
Before someone corrects me on this, it is possible to run some Windows software under linux using a windows emulator but this is not 'out of the box' and does required some technical knowledge to set up.

[I'm a linux only user although I may have to change this if/when I get into astrophotography as all the useful software is windows only ]

[programmer]

Originally Posted by ballaratdragons

Why doesn't a competition brand come out?

Why do we HAVE TO use only Microsoft???

Yeah, I've heard of Linux, but does it come in a box, just install, and use?

Surely some other company must be able to produce something like windows!!!!

That's easy: others don't do it because it's hard!

If Microsoft bashers thought about this for a second, they might realise what a great job Bill & Co are doing. Even Apple couldn't write their own from scratch

[programmer]

Originally Posted by snowyskiesau

Linux is easy to install and use, what puts most people off is that they can't run the Windows programs they already have.
Before someone corrects me on this, it is possible to run some Windows software under linux using a windows emulator but this is not 'out of the box' and does required some technical knowledge to set up.

[I'm a linux only user although I may have to change this if/when I get into astrophotography as all the useful software is windows only ]

Surely a lot of the astro software will run under emulation? I'd probably run Linux if it weren't for gaming.

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

If you go for a modern (read: current release) Linux distribution such as Fedora Core 8 (http://fedoraproject.org/) then "Wine" windows emulator is so well integrated that you just install Windows applications like you would on a Windows box - and it even builds start menus for you automagically. You need a slightly gruntier box because it is an emulation, but it usually just WORKS. The only reason I don't use Linux 100% of the time is that I need Photoshop to run at lightning speed - which isn't what you get under emulation....which is where the Mac comes in.

You'd be surprised what works under Wine these days. http://www.winehq.org/

[joe_smith]

Originally Posted by programmer

That's easy: others don't do it because it's hard!

If Microsoft bashers thought about this for a second, they might realise what a great job Bill & Co are doing. Even Apple couldn't write their own from scratch

yes it is, thats why apple and Microsoft got the original code from xerox. Apple had the better product but Microsoft had a better marking department. Linux is 100% better than Microsoft and apple because it uses open source is free and is built for the love of the Operating system and not driven by money or power trips. The only reason why windows has more compatible hardware for it is because the vender's support it and not Linux. Its not a Linux problem but a vendor problem. If all vendors released Linux drivers with their hardware Linux would be #1 even Apple knows how good it has come along

[netwolf]

I must admit i am yet to actually load vista, but from what I have read and studied its not all that different. The shells may change but under the hood much is the same and there is even similarity to Unix, Linux and due to the BSD base it is also similar to the current MAC OS. I have always run every MS os release from beta, to rtm to final. But this time I just skipped it. To busy still supporting Win2k and WinXP. I like WinXP, I liked Win2k i find nothing really to bad with it. You must think not from an expert level but from a user perspective and useablity. My mates started to move to Vista and as I am there call for help guy i have had to troubleshoot blind (not knowing the screens and menus etc). This is why i like to always run from beta to final, so i can guide people over the phone and know exactly what button press leads to what. But even blind i have managed the toughest of questions without much hassle, largely due to expected similarity to XP Google is my friend. In the next week or so I am going to upgrade my work laptop to Vista and run the work SOE in vmware, that way I can work and test. I only need the work SOE for remote access and email and few business apps so a vm will do for that.

All systems have bugs, and all system become stable over time. The market today demands deadlines with bugs included. If I was pessimistic i would say that commercial apps live of the the bugs so they can provision maintaince dollars. But i know better. In all lines of work I have seen people are pushed to meet deadlines, and of course that just facilitates bugs. No system is void of these. Thats just a commercial reality, making a system perfect is not commercially viable. It would never get released.

I like Linux, I like Mac OS but Windows earns me my bread and butter, because it has market share. Thats reality. Vista is out there, it will get better as time goes by, its the way it is.

Regards
Fahim