Sky and Space Magazine - Page 2

fringe_dweller · #21 04-06-2005, 11:33 PM

Houghy, I feel the same, they were also nice enough to print a couple of our pics on two occassions - even if

they

*sniffle* didnt

put my name on my shot

of comet WM1 linear that appeared in the comet section in the same issue we won our second readers pic of the month (we only entered twice) - I'll get over over it one day I'm sure - and move on. LOL!
Fringey

Rodstar (Rod) · #22 05-06-2005, 09:52 AM

Reading this thread as a lawyer, I would suggest if you have missed out on your subscriptions repeatedly, you could threaten a local court claim against them for breach of contract. Maybe if a few people wrote together to that effect, you might get some back issues in lieu to resolve outstanding grievances. You have up to 6 years from the time you paid your money to take action.

I would be happy to co-ordinate such a letter if those interested want to PM me with specific details of the periods you subscribed for, and what you missed out on. In you PM, please advise how many issues you missed out, and what you would be prepared to accept by way of past editions in lieu to resolve outstanding issues.

Noting HOughy all of your well made points about not being too negative about these things, it is simply unacceptable as a modern business practice not to respond to phone calls and emails. That is the sort of thing that DOES lead to a company closing.

They do not have my sympathy simply because they do it on a voluntary basis (if that is true). It is not as if they are running a charity for destitute people, or something, and there is another Australian astronomy mag, so it is not as if they are filling a void or something.

I subscribed earlier this year and had a good response initially....I am, like the rest of you, now getting a bit impatient for the May/ June edition. I would have thought that unless they get their act together in the next couple of weeks that it will good-bye and good riddance to their publication. A great pity because the March/ April edition was absolutely stunning.

Sausageman (Mike Boggan) · #23 05-06-2005, 02:12 PM

hOughy,
There is no defense to not fulfilling a contract.
If you pay for something and it is not delivered, then it is breach of contract in any State in Australia.
Whether they are Australian owned or not.
They still owe me 2 editions of the magazine.
It took me 4 months to get a delivery of some dvd's I ordered, I sent them many emails but they didn't answer any of them.
Do you know what they said? The magazine had them advertised as CD's, so they waited until I contacted them to see if I wanted dvd's instead.
I had to phone Sydney, long distance, at my cost, to get something done. That is not the way business is done.
They dont read thier emails,
It's lucky they are still in business.
I for one will never subscribe again, or buy anything from them.
Mike

h0ughy (David) · #24 05-06-2005, 02:24 PM

OK Rod and Mike

I give up,
I tried and failed to support them, lucky this isn't my dayjob eh Rod!

I do agree that it is no way to operate a business,
I do agree they are not the only astro mag in australia,
I do agree it is far too long between issues,
I do agree it is bad practice to tick off your clients,
and it is unprofessional not to return emails.

fringe_dweller · #25 05-06-2005, 03:06 PM

OK I am going to stick my neck way out for the chop again! As much as I have LOVED S&S over the years (when it all worked that is) and i feel very sorry for and grateful to all the innocent and wonderful contributers over the years. I will say what i have said privately for years. - And that is not including the many (it seems) complaints of subscribers being abused financially and the complaints I have heard over the years from certain advertisers (which i think should be treated like royalty and gods as the probably pay a lot of the bills). Even tho I am an astro mag junkie (I even buy the Canadian magazine occassionly!) and will buy just about every magazine going- and my house fills up with astro mags - much to my partners puzzlement.
And that is I think that even tho staff at S&S have probably worked very hard and unrewarded? and filled a huge void in maybe a tough enviroment just so the ungrateful readers can have something to read in bed?
I think the constant isitgonnacomeout/orisntit? over the last 10 years may have been been harmful to the morale (if such a thing exists) of Australian Amateur Astronomers and may have been off putting to newbies? who bought magazines with star charts and viewing guides two months out of date. Which is quite obvious to all i guess, not least to staff and contributors who probably worked their butts off for little or no reward.
In conclusion I would like to make it clear I am personally VERY, VERY grateful that knight in white shining armour has come to the rescue (AS&T) and I look forward to AS&T having a very long and prosperous future in Oz/NZ

- i also hope that S&S also continues and find a way to resolve the issues that stop them from being relevant. if i know amateur skywatchers a little, they will buy as many local mags that get put in front of them anyway. Plenty of room?. In the meantime i am really loving getting an excellent good old fashioned hard copy regularly (and a month in advance as should be the way!) to read before i go to sleep - beats staring at a monitor 24 hours a day. Way to go AS&T!

Sausageman (Mike Boggan) · #26 05-06-2005, 03:15 PM

All I want is for them to extend my subscription time to cover the now 3 missed editions of the magazine. I count the May/June edition as now missed as it did not arrive to cover any of May's astronomical events.
I for one would be willing to engage in a class action against S&S.
Mike

Sausageman (Mike Boggan) · #27 05-06-2005, 03:30 PM

I will also reply in defense of S&S. partially.
If I had only bought the mag from newsagents, I wouldn't have a problem.

But because I subscribed to the magazine, they took my money real quick, and didn't deliver on the contract, they are in breach of contract. They owe me.
Although it's only a small amount of money involved, I have missed out on many stellar events and people advertising in the magazine have also paid money for nothing.

Therefore I can't condone the attitude or the business ethics of S&S.

Mike

johnno · #28 05-06-2005, 04:12 PM

Hi All,

I feel very sorry for the people who have subscribed to this mag,and havent got it.
I also feel very sorry for the Advertisers,as one told me the other day,it was costing him well in excess of 1k$,per page for an ad,and he is really ticked off,and will not advertise with them again.(dont know if he was reimbursed or not,but I know what my guess is)
This is a real pity as it was a really good mag,I hope they can sort out their problems,and get back on track,I will still buy the Mag,But as before, only from Newsagents.
Regards.John

xstream (John) · #29 05-06-2005, 04:35 PM

Thanks for the offer Rod,
Personally I don't care anymore after all the phone calls and emails Anna has made to them, and on the rare occasions she actually spoke to someone whose promises were allways unfulfilled. I wont repeat what they can do with their Mag for fear of being censored. They may keep the cost of the three issues we never received, but I declare I'll never recommend anyone subscribe or purchase this Mag as long as it is in print.
I just hope someone from S&S is reading these posts. I'd be interested to see what pitiful excuse they would reply with.

Sausageman (Mike Boggan) · #30 05-06-2005, 04:38 PM

Fringe dweller,

I think the problem lies with the staff, Some of them are as mad as us on Astronomy, but others are not, especially the sales staff.
When I phoned up I got an answer, probably in India, from the accent. The guy was as helpful as a council inspector.
We live and learn, don't we?
Mike

Sausageman (Mike Boggan) · #31 05-06-2005, 04:45 PM

Wow Xstream.
You have obviously had more probs than me!
But i tried the email thing, what a waste of time that was....
It actually took an email to the editor to fix things.
But that didn't last either.
I am still 3 mag's short of my subscription.
Mike

xstream (John) · #32 05-06-2005, 05:04 PM

Not so much me Mike, but my wife, she subscribed but that's beside the point.
In todays age there is no excuse for it. I make no apologies for what I have said. To run a business like that is just not on today, if we did that where I work we wouldn't last 5 minutes and lastly to ignore emails is just the height of rudeness.
Boy this thread is making my blood boil again (calm down John it's not good for your Hypertension)

Rodstar (Rod) · #33 06-06-2005, 01:37 PM

John (Xstream), I can just imagine a therapist sitting back, listening to this, and asking, "And how does that make you feel?"

Sounds like we could all do with 1 hour on a therapist's couch!

h0ughy (David) · #34 06-06-2005, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodstar

John (Xstream), I can just imagine a therapist sitting back, listening to this, and asking, "And how does that make you feel?"

Sounds like we could all do with 1 hour on a therapist's couch!

and that includes reading the latest issue of s&s

beren · #35 06-06-2005, 02:21 PM

Ive enjoyed the the latest issues of Sky and Space and ill be greedy and say i hope the mag survives even though its starting to look dicey , the prevous editions highlighted new equipment and news as reasons for delay for release but now thats starting to wear thin .As a non-subscriber ill take it as it comes but for those who have subscribed its got to be down right annoying , AS&t is moving along very nicely.

Brendan · #36 06-06-2005, 02:40 PM

mike, i too subscribe to the mag, apparently they are extending subscriptions for those clients who missed out on issues last year.

I don't know if they would accept your claim that the May/June edition was "missed" simply because it did not arrive in May. Maybe Rod can advise on that point of law.

I too also find the lack of response to communication frustrating, like louie i was a subscriber to the now defuncted Southern Astronomy, I actually rang the shop and supposedly had the balance of that subscription transfered to the new sky and space.

I guess we shall just wait and see what happens next.

mch62 (Mark) · #37 06-06-2005, 03:05 PM

Finally got through and had an interesting conversation with Lyle Rumble the managing editor from S&S .

I suggested to him very nicely to check his e-mails and reply to them re missing issues and made a point that this STD conversation cost the amount of an issue .

Any way to cut a very long story short (this guy should be a politician) there restructuring???? and are aware of the problem da de da de da de da and we have been in business for 17 years da de da de da we will be extending your subscription for the 2 issues missing and the latest May/June is not far off and so on and so on.
I did make the point not to bother with May/June as the charts and info will be out of date now.

I suggest don't bother with e-mails and spend the cost of a subscription and phone him and voice your feelings , if you can get through.

02 93693344

Now we wait and see.

On a positive note , and I did let him know , I like the magazine and enjoy the articals but it would be nice to have it to read.

Mark

fringe_dweller · #38 06-06-2005, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Boggan

Fringe dweller,

I think the problem lies with the staff, Some of them are as mad as us on Astronomy, but others are not, especially the sales staff.
When I phoned up I got an answer, probably in India, from the accent. The guy was as helpful as a council inspector.
We live and learn, don't we?
Mike

Mike, Maybe those sales staff are too busy dreaming of working for an Ozzie 'money spinner' popular mag like something along the lines of "Babes & Cars" Maybe if there was more centrespreads of Lovely young ladies draped on the bonnets of hot cars - Sky and Space wouldnt be in this position? Maybe something along the lines of beren's amusing avatars?

Did you mention councils!!! ....count to ten fringey, count to ten and breathe deeply - whew - web rage containment successful!

Can I bore the s**t out you all a bit more?

with one of my crazy old crusty crackpot theories? I have heard the comment put forward about the level of Australian NZ content in AS&T - That also occurred to me when i first read the AS&T - (incidently I thought the timing was funny - coincided with the FTA with the US that lowered/relaxed legally required OZ content levels and allowed more OS control in Oz based media... hhmmm? not complaining! just making an observation!) I would say this - considering that S&S comes out at best maybe 4 - 5 times a year and AS&T comes out 11 times a year - if you multiply the Oz/NZ content of say *minimum*? 30% - 40% in AS&T by 11x - that is equal to the Oz content a year we now get from S&S!

( but i would think that the local adds make up 50% of any mag - and i actually love the adds of course - helps me keep with developments -so in theory a lot more than 30% - plus readers pics thats another chunk - and now so many more local pic takers will get to be showcased more often

it all good

Cheers
Fringey
fully paid up card carrying member of the chattering classes!

astroron (Ron) · #39 06-06-2005, 04:53 PM

Mark Lyle Rumble has been saying that for the last God knows how many years, I gave up subscribing to S/S many years ago.
John Naly from AS&T was the editor and co founder of S/S and he left to go to go to the other mag.
I think you all should save your phone money and typing fingers and just get AS&T, at least it comes out on time, and as time goes by it will get more Aussie and Kiwi stuff to fill our reading pleasure, as well you can get most of the stuff that you get in the mags on the internet. astroron

Moonman (Michael) · #40 07-06-2005, 10:37 PM

I managed to get an extension on my subsription due to the folding of the Southern Astronomy Magazine which I also paid a subscription for. I learned after a few goes that it is pointless emailing S&S (absolutely and always no response). I resorted to a telephone conversation which did the trick. I'm not so sure now but reading this lot makes me think I was extremely lucky that this worked.

Anyway I love the Mag. and I have been wondering when the next edition is going to appear in my letterbox. Hopefully worth the wait.