Equipment prices in Australia

[astroAJ]

Yep
I do say the asto equipment is expensive
But you can’t always be to sure what you buy online
It doesn’t stop me from supporting local astro shops

[g__day (Matthew)]

Good points Andrew,

I've meet all of them too. I've bought lots from them, the majority of my experiences are great. I know how fully I'm covered by the Banking payments act. I know the moment I say I repudiate that credit card transaction in writing because it's not mine, it's not what I ordered or the goods are not in good order by law its the Bank's problem. They may rant and rave, and usually don't, but its there problem - its written into the banking act and payments law for Australia.

I agree that one should do all their research before they buy. But the very fact we can get better retail prices than a wholesaler can get volume prices strikes me as poor.

[billche]

I don't know what to add into this thread, but...

Louwai,
I totally agreed with what you'd said and that's why I bought almost everything OS.

Bill

[Stephen65]

I strongly suspect that the main cause of some of the inexplicable price markups are not the local retailers, but as I said, the pricing structure where a sole local distributor is appointed by the manufacturer, granted a monopoly over supply and then RRP's are set by the manufacturer or distributor that are considerably in excess of US prices.

I know when priced a Celestron scope here that retailers here were having to work on a Celestron/distributor set RRP that wasmore than 50% higher than the RRP of the exact same scope in the USA. And when you are looking at C11s and C14s that's thousands of dollars difference.

Net result was I didn't buy a Celestron scope, I bought a WO scope from Andrews Comm and most recently a Tak scope from AEC for prices that were comparable to US prices (as they should be since the product is sourced in a third country) once you took into account things like GST etc. In fact at 78 cents in the dollar conversion rate the Tak is priced slightly less than it is in the USA.

Buying a scope or mount locally even if its a bit more expensive does give you the benefit of local warranty support and repairs which can be invaluable and worth paying a bit of a premium to get. But if its something like an eyepiece or a filter, that would have to be shipped overseas back to the manufacturer for warranty work even if I bought locally and isn't a hassle to ship, then I certainly do look at US dealers and buy from them if the price difference is substantial. I'd like to patronise local if possible but sometimes the price difference is so large that I buy overseas.

That applies doubly to something like computer software where all you are getting is code on a DVD and a manual, there is no conceivable reason it should be double the price here and no reason why you wouldn't buy it from overseas for half the price.

[sparky (Eddy)]

Well correct if I'm wrong here but the Skywatcher stuff is sold here at very competitive retail prices compared to the states. Now Celestron I think is owned by Synta/Skwatcher yet the Celestron range seems to have a much higher mark up when compared to the USA. Whats going on? I wanted to buy an CGE mount last year but was er dissapointed by the relatively high price. I bought the EQ6 instead. I notice this has dropped over AU$400 in price (great for the consumer) yet the price of the CGE mount hasn't moved a cent. I fully support the idea of buying local but at what cost?

[merlin8r]

Ok, as has been said, when you buy local, you get the warranty. Here's the thing: In Australia, all new products sold are required to have a warranty, from a toaster to a Toyota. In the Australian telescope market, it is the retailer who wears this. All warranty repairs are conducted by trained staff in their own facilities.
When you buy in the US (this is US customers), if your telescope goes defective, the retailer won't have a bar of it. You have to send the telescope back to the manufacturer. At your cost. The manufacturer is responsible for warranty repair costs.
That is the number 1 reason why prices are higher here.

Astro Optical - about $2K

+ve - first 6" newtonian I every bought, plus many eyepieces - great
+ve - got me the SS2k serial cable I wanted instantly - no sweat!
+ve - kept a credit for me for years no issue, Warren is a top bloke!
-ve - no substantive help on how to mate a C9.25 to a Atlux, really limited suggestions
-ve - no help as the Australian Sky6 distributor confirming whether it would work fully with the SS2k

We service what we sell.
We are not the "sole" Australian dealer of TheSky6, and the advice given to you at the time was to ask Software Bisque, the producers of TheSky6. They are in a much better position to answer your questions.

[space oddity]

Australia is a rather small market with the extra burden of freight and GST. It is only to be expected that prices will be higher here, although sometimes they seem to be a bit over the top. I have bought a number of things mail order from the states, so far so good, but nothing requiring a warranty. It is worth spending the extra to obtain that warranty. Besides, our local dealers DO provide sponsorship and support for our astro societies and star parties.,so they do deserve some sales. When ordering gear around the $1000 mark, have the packages opened, they can then be deemed "used" merchandise and lower the value by 20%.

[g__day (Matthew)]

Hey merlin8r,

Looking at Software Bisque overseas site for local dealers you guys were the only one mentionedto me by Dan. Asking everyone in Sydney - even BinTel pointed me to you! Hate to tell you but I'm on Daniel Bisque's own forums for the last 6 months; my question was 60% my not knowing and 40% a test if you guys knew about the stuff you were selling. Read on to see how you scored.

Given you sell Vixen mounts for years and you sell the Sky6 makes me think of you as a value adding re-seller. Figuring I might not be the only folk wanting to know I pondered you might want to simply e-mail my specific questions on and enlighten them all. So what actually happened?

Well the timeline went like this e-mail to Warren

I asked 4 specific questions on dovetails, serial cables and weights for the Atlux and the drivers needed for Sky 6.

Two days later Warren answers one of my 4 specific questions - saying we have the serial cable I need, but only in a 2 metre length when I later call to check that as it wasn't specified in his e-mail. Now here's where it gets strange. Rather than answer the three other important questions he suggests the new Atlux's aren't out yet - why not buy a Sphinx SXD (which when I come to the store he then tells me aren't released for sale into Australia yet - weird diversion and strange advice.

So I e-mail my other three questions again - saying look I've got the Atlux - I need the other three items can you help?

His e-mail comes back - helpful on the vixen dovetails, no help or suggestion on a side saddle - like try a Losmandy or ADM or Robyn Casady - might have been nice to hear. Had he have said there expensive but want me to source it all for you and add say $100 for my efforts I'd said fine. Shame no additional customer service was added. His response to the weights was just weird "Atlux counter weights are also a special order item, they came in 3.5kg & 7kg sizes (they are not listed in Vixen's current price list) A 25% deposit with your order is requested for special order items." Why doesn't the retailer know the cost of his wares? Why can't he find out before he tells me to leave a 25% deposit? How do I leave a 25% deposit if he himself doesn't know the cost? See how the ball is getting dropped here? Why didn't you simply mail Vixen and ask the prices like I asked before e-mailing me back with non-information?

But the story goes on...

So I come into the shop to get the cable - staff are great. I ask about tube rings - get shown a manual and told definitively oh they never made a tube ring for the C9.25 only the 8" and 14". Well I accepted that at their word - until last night when cruising Vixen Japan sites I see a white 235mm OTA marked Celestron on an Atlux in a White tube ring.


Now I don't mind hearing we don't know, or its out of production, but it was never made is a definitive answer and its not the truth - I don't like that. Secondly I go to pay with a credit I have now for 5 years. I trusted Warren with my money. I have a receipt in his hand writing, on your letter head, with my customer numbers for your computer records. After a while the guys serving me comes out looking a bit surprised and says "Oh I guess your story checks out". When I was younger if someone had of checked their own book keeping and come up to me and said "Oh I guess you're not a liar after all" they might not have liked my immediate reaction - but let's let that one pass, not everyone understands good customer service.

The bottom line is you guys tried - but not very hard - like writing an e-mail to your distributor, or answering my questions on the first 3 times they were asked, or going the extra mile to say great question - we don't know how about we find out.

Instead I got fobbed off. We dunno - ask Software Bisque - why should we bother was the way I felt I was being treated.

If any of the staff had of said Matt - it'll all up cost your $1,500 for the mounting, the Sky 6, the weights are you happy for us to put it all together and check its the best way forward - you'd have got my business. Dumping it all back on me after 3 e-mails and 3 phone calls and a store visit and giving me wrong information and no value add is why you ended up getting $50 of my wallet.

[Stephen65]

In Australia, all new products sold are required to have a warranty, from a toaster to a Toyota. In the Australian telescope market, it is the retailer who wears this. All warranty repairs are conducted by trained staff in their own facilities.

The Trade Practices Act imposes certain limited warranty rights, but there are similar consumer protection provisions in the USA and many other countries.

It's not correct that the retailer actually carries out all warranty repairs in Australia. It depends on what is wrong and how it is to be fixed. Some retailers are capable of simple repairs (eg replace circuit board) but in many cases they have to send the product back to the manufacturer as the manufacturer either is the only party capable of repair or has to review the defective product to authorise a replacement.

Many Australian retailers are small one or two man operations incapable of anything beyond the simplest repairs and have to send almost everything back.

When you buy in the US (this is US customers), if your telescope goes defective, the retailer won't have a bar of it. You have to send the telescope back to the manufacturer. At your cost. The manufacturer is responsible for warranty repair costs.

Depends on the type and cost of the repair and the retailer. I've read enough consumer stories on CN to know that sometimes the retailer looks after it and often the manufacturer pays for the shipping if it has to be sent back. Again it depends on what the product is and the nature of the repair.

I know in my own dealings with OPT that when I asked them about warranty coverage on a TV eyepiece I was thinking of buying from them that they told me they would handle it for me.

Even if there is some extra warranty cost that Australian retailers must bear that US retailers don't what I don't get is why some manufacturers are able to sell their product here at prices that are reasonably close to US prices yet others seem to charge very large price loadings.

[iceman (Mike)]

Originally Posted by space oddity

Besides, our local dealers DO provide sponsorship and support for our astro societies and star parties.,so they do deserve some sales.

I'd agree with this part most of all!

What would you all do at star parties without the lucky door prize raffles?

Local vendors do a great job supporting our hobby in this country.

[gbeal]

Mike, maybe. I scooted to your fair town 12 months ago, and walked into Bintel Sydney. Nice folk, and we chewed the fat for a while. I was keen to explore the possibilty of having them send me a Lightbridge scope, and wrote to them on my return. 12 months almost, and no reply. OK, I can live with rejection, and have moved on.
The silly thing though is that this week I have the opportunity to get a mirror bought back to NZ by a friend visiting Melbourne. So I search and find again on the Bintel site that they have what I want. I write to the Melbourne shop and enquire. Nope, they don't stock it, but Sydney do or should, write to them. This reply was quick, and informative. So I write to the Sydney shop, 2 days ago, and still nothing.
Given the lack of attention to e mail, I wonder sometimes why they have an internet presence at all.
In my case I have simply aborted, and will buy elsewhere, like most will when faced with this sort of service. So in a competitive cut throat market, you would assume they would want my money, apparently not.

[Louwai (Bryan)]

As disapointing as it is, I have had similar experiences as Gary with Bintel.
I have never purchased from Bintel mainly due to the phone manor I received when calling to enquire about a specific product.
3 times over the last 5 mths I have called the Melb store to enquire about products availability & price.
Maybe the store was absolutely packed & they were run off their feet, I don't know as I was on the ph. But whoever it was that answered couldn't get rid of me quick enough.
I received the shortest most abrupt answers to my few questions & that has pretty much put me off them for good.

I'm not far from the Melb shop, & in many cases I'd pay the higher prices for the convenience. But to date I haven't due to the above.

Customer service goes a long way in my book. I try very hard to make my customers' buying experience a good one, regardless of the amount they spend.
Then they come back, & usually bring their friends.


I have purchased items from Steve @ My Astro Shop. Very quick & polite service. When an item had an issue, it was replaced promptly.
I wouldn't hesitate to recomend him.

I've purchased from York Optical in Brisbane (when I lived there).
Very knowledgable staff. Although in my case they were screwed over by the Celestron distributor in Brisbane.
When I bought my C8 I intended to buy it from York in Bris. I was in the shop, they called the distributor at Capalaba & he said 8 to 10 weeks away.
I called another Celestron dealer from NSW & purchased over the ph on the same day. My C8 was delivered the NEXT day from the SAME distributor in Capalaba.
On other issues the York staff in Bris have gone out of their way to accomodate me. Again I would recomend the store.

[casstony]

Something that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is that GSO gear is generally cheaper here than it is in the U.S.

I suspect the retailers don't have a lot margin to play with and that prices are dictated by their distributors.

[Geoff45 (Geoff)]

ATScope - Never managed to get anything there - but not from want of trying!

+ve - none so far, but Peter obivously knows his stuff
-ve - never seems to return my multiple calls or e-mails, strange...

.

Put in a request for an sbig ccd camera or a losmandy titan and I'll bet you get a quick reply!

[g__day (Matthew)]

Bwwwwwhhhaaaaauuuuuuu!

[BOBBY]

Hey Guys I run an business in WA and import about 80 containers a year from major UK manufactures but I can tell you we could never compete product for product with UK wholesalers. The costs involved with freight,customs and many other hidden charges makes it imposible. The other thing also to remeber is Australian wholesalers have to work on higher margins due to demand from a smaller population.
As for Australian Astro suppliers I would give Bintel (Sydney) 10 out of 10 Ive never had a problem Don and the guys run a good business

[Louwai (Bryan)]

Originally Posted by BOBBY

Hey Guys I run an business in WA and import about 80 containers a year from major UK manufactures but I can tell you we could never compete product for product with UK wholesalers. The costs involved with freight,customs and many other hidden charges makes it imposible. The other thing also to remeber is Australian wholesalers have to work on higher margins due to demand from a smaller population.
As for Australian Astro suppliers I would give Bintel (Sydney) 10 out of 10 Ive never had a problem Don and the guys run a good business

In my original post I tried to account for all of those points.
I wasn't comparing the retail price here to the retail price in the US. I added all relevant import & shipping costs to the US retail price.

The only things I'm not sure of is the wholesale purchase price & the qty purchased from the wholesaler. I tried to be conservative on the qty & I assumed the wholesale purchase price was the same as the US retailers + some contingency.
I also worked on LCL which, as you would know, is much more expensive than FCL. So as a VERY general comparison the difference between the 2 prices would be the AU retailers margin which includes overhead & profit. OH shouldn't be more than 7%.

I agree with your comment regarding the smaller population. Some manufacturers / suppliers just flat out refuse to deal with me because I'm from Australia & in their words "The market isn't large enough"

[gbeal]

Update.
Just received an e mail from Bintel, and they are unable to help with supplying what I want. A shame, but at least I now know. Back to the drawing board.

[rumples riot]

When I recently went through the effort of buying a C1400 with CGE mount I confronted one retailer here. They dropped the price by 1500 immediately. That to my mind says a lot about how much profit is actually being made on astronomy products.

It is false economy to suggest that our market is smaller and requires higher prices. In fact from a market perspective the prices should be lower. Lower prices encourage greater market participation and more entrances into the market from the buyer. This means volume to the seller and the seller is still in a better position than before. Astronomy is more accessible to the public.

Added to the above, is that even if the price is dictated by other factors, the wholesale price should remain the same. This is because of the FTA with the US (Hahaha that is funny) and the no selling outside of the US or UK suggests that there is some sort of market collusion on prices. Surely a retailer in the US is getting products like a C1400 for around 4000 US from Celestron. They sell it to the public for 6100, fair margin and some profit to boot. Australian retailers are not paying 8000 Au for the product to sell it at 11500. They should be buying the product for around the same price wholesale and then have added costs like import, GST and freight. Clearly the figures do not add up. Besides Celestron would be trying to encourage market participation and drop the price in a market where participation is low. The local market then pays the relief to support the strategy. The same thing happens here. You don't really think a Holden cost 54000 to build do you? When it is being sold in the UK or US for a fraction of that price.

No ladies and Gentlemen we are being ripped off and retailers in this country know it. Sure we get a warrantee and good service, but I don't think that is worth the inflated cost.

[Nuri]

Absolutely agree Rumples Riot!

I recently went to Los Angeles on business and bought a "display model" CGE mount from the Woodland Hills Telescope shop and brought it back with me on the return flight. You are now allowed 64KG of personal luggage to and from the US with Qantas, so there was no shipping fee... Woodland Hills also refunded the US sales tax back to my credit card when I faxed them a document I obtained from LAX airport on the way out.

Now...I could add the price of the US return flight AND accommodation in the US and STILL be under the AU price! As far as support goes, there is plenty of support on the Internet if I have problems...