Telescope question

[iceman (Mike)]

All very good points Mark, one should not discount the EQ mount.. I guess most of it comes from budget, $399 as opposed to $1500+.

[slice of heaven]

Well said Mark.
That $1500 includes excellent tracking as well though.
I'm a dob pusher but they have their limits.
Give me dark skies and a permanent setup and I would jump ship.

[iceman (Mike)]

Give me dark skies and a permanent setup and I would jump ship

ditto that!

[cahullian]

Hi bc welcome to the forum
Like you I'm new at this and bought myself a 8" Dob. Without ever looking through a telescope in my life before I have had no trouble finding nebula the major planets and star clusters. I find something new every time im out viewing and all the family comes out for a look and none of us have trouble keeping the planet or whatever in the FOV.
Dont know anything about the EQ mounts but if you want a cheap quality scope the Dob is the go for sure.
gazz

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Originally posted by cahullian
Dont know anything about the EQ mounts but if you want a cheap quality scope the Dob is the go for sure.
gazz

Thats my whole point, BC has a budget of $1,000 which will buy him a very good serviceable 10" scope complete on a dobsonian mount ready to observe, or 3/4 of the lowest quality equatorial mount strong enough to hold an 8" newt (EQ6) and yet no scope and eyepieces to observe with. BC can always buy the dob and subsequently mount the Optical Tube Assembly (OTA) on an EQ mount (EQ6 or Losmandy G11 or something much better again) when funds permit or he wants to dabble in photography. FWIW I think the EQ6 is the minimum equatorial mount I would consider for an 8"/F6 OTA due to the long moment arm. Most scope/eq mount packages sold by dealers are realistically, seriously undermounted, sure the tube fits on the mount but its also not what I would call a stable/steady observing platform

Something else to consider is that the eyepiece can get into some pretty awkward viewing positions when observing with a EQ tripod mounted 8"/F6 newt, particulalry for people that are not overly tall. Sure you get "dobsons hole" with a dob but that is easily worked around in the sky or overcome with an angled timber wedge platform which costs about $10 and 30 minutes to make.

Simple fact is over the last 30 years a large number of experienced observers have been converted over from using EQ mounts to dobsonian mounts, other than those wishing to get into astrophotography you don't see too many people being converted the other way around, from a dob to an EQ mount. that HAS to tell you something.

FWIW I don't dissassemble my 10"/F5 GS dob in any way to transport it, it slides straight into the wifes hatchback fully assembled with finderscope and argo navis still in place, it comes out the same way, stand it on the ground and start observing in under 2 minutes.

I have owned EQ mounts in the past and WILL own them in the future. I plan to build an observatory in the future and that will house an equatorially mounted Newtonian of about 12" aperture. BUT, its gonna cost me a lot more than $1,000 and I don't plan on moving it anywhere.

Given that BC is coming in at the beginner level on a limited budget of $1,000 and wants to see as much as possible (needs aperture) I think the choice of a dob "AT THIS STAGE" is a no brainer. Obviously buying a tubed dob gives him the flexibility to subsequently mount it quite easily on an EQ mount at any time in the future, funds and desire permitting.

My original advice to BC still stands, attend some star parties and see what you think you might and might not like before making a decision. You may not like using a dob and there are some that don't, you shouldn't however sell the design short before trying it. I will say "the bottom end" equatorial mount that is strong enough and large enough to "properly" support an 8" or 10" tubed Newtonian is going to cost you WELL OVER $1,000 NEW before you put a telescope on it or eypieces in the scope, consequently I think its WAY out of your budget at this stage, if you want enough aperture for the observing targets to look 1/2 decent. ie CRAWL before you WALK

CS-John B

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Originally posted by mhodson
I don't knock the Dob mounted scope and have said many times before they have there place just the same as EQ mounts and Go-To mount have theres.

Mark

Mark,

I am not knocking EQ mounts either, I have owned them in the past and will own them in the future, they have their place as does the dob mount. I think your not giving enough emphasis to
a major point that BC stated in his reply to your original post,

"I WAS HOPING TO GET SET UP FOR ~ $1,000"

Given that he has dark skies and wants or should want, decent aperture that leaves him with 2 choices IMO.

1. Buy an 8" or 10" dob

2. Double his budget. $2k will get him nicely set up with a 10"/F5 Newt on an EQ6 mount.

3. A poor 3rd choice is to buy a smaller equatorially mounted scope costing ~ $1,000

CS-John B

[BC]

I think the last post from ausastronomer sums it up. Option 1 is perhaps the most likely, Option 2 sounds pretty flash but the other half of the budget team will need to have a say. As I'm just getting into this, Option 1 is probably the most sensible for many reasons. Option 3 is probably, as desribed, a poor choice.

Thanks,
BC

[stringscope (Ian)]

I should have mentioned earlier BC, the Canberra Astro Soc (CAS) has telescopes for hire, very reasonably priced $10-20/month, 3"-8". Take your pick. I am involved running the introductory group and one of these scope is allocated for use by this group. If it is not hired out I bring it along to the deep sky nights (DSN) for general use. I couldn't "sell" it at the last meeting so it is available for hire and it will be at the DSN this Saturday.

Cheers,

[slice of heaven]

Thats a brilliant option stringscope.
Shame this service is not available everywhere.

[BC]

Well sadly the clouds got the better of us yesterday, so Stringscope’s kind offer of the viewing night didn’t eventuate. This leaves me back in the wastelands of theory rather than the pastures of practical experience. So a couple more questions if I may:

I gather that the f6 is more forgiving than f5 when it comes to both collimation and coping with eyepieces of a lower quality. I’m trying to figure out whether the slightly? better eyepieces from Bintel would be OK with the 10” f5 Dob, thus making a good package. I’m not that keen on bottom of the range EPs from Andrews which I’m then wanting to replace. I still have the naïve thought that I might buy something and be happy with it for quite some time. The 32mm 2” EP on the Bintel premium sounds quite good, making good use of the 2” focuser. Another tack would be to upgrade the 8” f6 to premium specs like the Crayford focuser and slightly better Eps, making a better all-round scope. Of course if I go down that path, the 10” premium package is already there; more light, maybe a bit less forgiving in some areas though. The size really isn’t a problem as I’ll simply be wheeling it outside on the trolley. Ahhhhh………

We're off to Sydney next weekend to do a little shopping so we'll see how things go.

[Starkler (Geoff)]

A few points.

Collimating a f5 scope isnt difficult. Owning a newtonian you will need to learn collimation anyway. I dont see this is an issue. When you order your scope, ask for a cheshire collimating tool as well , you will need it.

You dont want the 32mm 2 inch eyepiece, its a shocker at f5, and hardly much better at f6 for abberations in the outer field. A much better option is the GS 30mm superview.

The Andrews plossls are bottom of the range, if the Bintel supllied plossls are Guan Sheng, they should be better.

Considering you have 1G to spend, go for the 10 then you wont be wondering what your missing with the 8

[iceman (Mike)]

I agree with Geoff, collimation is collimation - you'll need to do it with the 8 or the 10". Once you learn to do it well, you'll want the extra aperture.

The only thing going for the f/6 is it's a little less taxing on the eyepieces, so some budget widefields might do a bit better in the f/6 than in an f/5. But it depends on your expectations, and tolerance to star shapes around the edge of the view.

We're off to Sydney next weekend to do a little shopping so we'll see how things go

Can you make it to the observing night on the Central Coast on Saturday night?

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Originally Posted by iceman

The only thing going for the f/6 is it's a little less taxing on the eyepieces, so some budget widefields might do a bit better in the f/6 than in an f/5.

BC,

Eyepieces are always better at F6 than F5 but not by a great amount. In terms of the cheap Chinese widefields its not a major issue, you really have to go to about F8 before the cheaper chinese widefields perform ok. They will be better at F6 than F5 but they don't perform great at F6 either.

Also as Mike and Geoff correctly point out collimation is not much more difficult at F5 than F6 for a beginner and once your experienced its really no different.

The fact that one scope is F5 and the other is F6 SHOULD NOT be a determining factor in deciding which scope you purchase and 10" will always show you a lot more than 8".

Cs-John B

[BC]

Thanks to you all for the informative discussion. I'll get to see all the goodies this weekend in Sydney. Mike, thanks for the invite to the central coast but we won't be able to make it there. It's sounding fairly like the 10" Premium GSO Dob at this stage and I'm going to visit both shops.

[BC]

Well I'm back from Sydney. I managed to get over my EQ fixation for now. I came home with a Bintel 10" Premium in the back of the 4WD (along with my wife, 2 kids and bags for the weekend). No, my wife was in the front seat, but the car was pretty full just the same. Now the tricky part, this is for my birthday which isn't until the end of July.....damn, I made my decision too early.

Seriously though, thanks immensely to you all for the advice and thoughts given recently, it was very helpful.

[iceman (Mike)]

ahh you went for the dob afterall Good work!

I'm sure the Bintel guys knew you were from IceInSpace

[stringscope (Ian)]

Congratulations on your new scope BC. Make sure you bring it to the next CAS deep sky night. We will all check it out for you!!

Cheers,

[Roger Davis]

As Iceman said, buy the larget aperture you can afford. If this be a Dobsonian then all well and good, you get the resolution you need. Worry about driving it later with a EQ table of some kind or Bartelize it or Dob Driver it.