What Do You Think

[Sharnbrook (Mike)]

What do I think? Very much like you Leon.

I'm sure, not only from the very supportive posts so far, but from a personal point of view, that you are unlikely to get into trouble for your comments.

I believe that there are too many "Excellent first shot" comments, when really the image is ordinary at the best. It would be far better to say nothing, than to give praise to a shot that really has nothing to commend it.

When I do post, I shall ask for constructive criticism, and hope to receive it. A comment such as "That was a bloody awful shot of the Moon" would be worthless and hurtful, but a comment that said "OK, but more contrast would be better" would give a clue to what the problem is. Better still would be "Have you tried playing around with curves in Photoshop, to increase contrast and give the shot more impact?"

Constructive criticism will lead to better images, and an interchange of ideas and techniques. Gratuitous praise will lead nowhere, except more of the same.

Not only a note that "Image editing is OK", but also that "Comments and Constuctive Criticism welcomed" would be worthwhile considering as part of the posting process, much the same as the example above, that I assume is from POTN, the Canon site, or if not, then from a similar site.

Regards,

Mike

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Rather than Terry (Mojo) and Mike mucking around with the site to set up this 'Image Editing & Comment Approved' idea, just put it in BOLD text in your Sig. I just added it to mine.

[RB (Andrew)]

Originally Posted by Shawn

I edited that image to bring out a bit more detail......

S

That's a lovely re-process Shawn
Would you like to share with us what you did to improve it.....

Originally Posted by Sharnbrook

It would be far better to say nothing, than to give praise to a shot that really has nothing to commend it.

Absolutely agree Mike.

Originally Posted by Sharnbrook

Not only a note that "Image editing is OK", but also that "Comments and Constuctive Criticism welcomed" would be worthwhile considering as part of the posting process, much the same as the example above, that I assume is from POTN, the Canon site, or if not, then from a similar site.
Regards,
Mike

Yes you're spot on, it's from POTN, I've seen you on there once or twice Mike.

Originally Posted by ballaratdragons

Rather than Terry (Mojo) and Mike mucking around with the site to set up this 'Image Editing & Comment Approved' idea, just put it in BOLD text in your Sig. I just added it to mine.

Great Idea Ken.

[jase (Jason)]

Constructive Feedback
“Morale boosting” statements are fine.
Constructive criticism statements are fine.

However, the poster needs to make it clear what they want to hear from members;
An all comments welcome or stating nothing at all indicates they are open (fair assumption). If the poster specifically says constructive criticism only, then those who feel they can’t provide advice to assist the poster should not make comment. Simply stating “great image” or “you’re stars are too blue” is not good enough and only introduces “noise” into the thread. Tell them how you would go about addressing the problem – work with them publicly so that others can glean knowledge from the thread. There are a lot of knowledgeable people here with numerous levels of astrophotography experience – leverage off it by being specific for what you would like to hear.

For those that feel inferior when posting a sub perfect image, remember people have traveled the same road before you. You will only improve with experience and knowledge sharing. Get out there and post those images and ask for constructive feedback. Don’t take your images to heart. Acknowledge them for what they are and look for flaws.

When I stop learning, there will be a medical report classifying me as officially deceased.

Image Editing
What’s the point of editing someone else’s image from this site? As it is, you're limited to 150k file upload size, thus the uploaded file is small and highly compressed. If you seriously think you can improve the uploaded image while it is such a compressed state, I wish you the very best of luck.

Try it for yourself. Open the image that you've posted and modify the curves or colour balance - I doubt you'll improve the image as the compression has reduced how much data you can work with. It will introduce more noise and have a "washed out" look. The only way to improve an image is to have access to the raw data. So lacking this - don't bother. Just provide constructive feedback if you have the capacity to do so.

If the astrophotographer provides a link to an unprocessed higher resolution file(s) specifically asking for assistance or to simply have a go at processing it, then you can make a difference. In such a case, you should provide information as to the exact steps they have used to process the image. Also, those who reprocess the image should also acknowledge that the data still remains the property of the astrophotographer. Don't try and rip it off and post your version on your website (I have seen this happen) or use their data for layering within your own images without consent.

I find the 150k limit restrictive, but understand there needs to be a limit. Those in the know usually provide links to their external website to better convey their work so that don't have to comply to such file size limitations. After all there is no point spending all this time collection data and image processing into a masterpiece when you can't display it in all its glory.

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

I don't care if the resolution is low, I have seen my pics edited by others and there was improvement, which shows me an example of how it could look better. Then I take the original back into PhotoShop and try it.

This is all meant to be fun. If you were extremely serious about your image quality, yes by all means attach a link to the full res version. I personally am happy to see people adjust my low res images to help improve them. The quality may be rubbish, but the example is there to use.

[matt]

Originally Posted by ballaratdragons

This is all meant to be fun. If you were extremely serious about your image quality, yes by all means attach a link to the full res version.

Maybe some folk are both having fun and being 'serious' about their images at the same time? These two standpoints are not mutually exclusive.

Maybe some people are here to have a bit of fun and get serious about their imaging. I think it's horses for courses.

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Originally Posted by matt

Maybe some folk are both having fun and being 'serious' about their images at the same time? These two standpoints are not mutually exclusive.

Maybe some people are here to have a bit of fun and get serious about their imaging. I think it's horses for courses.

I'm both, but sill welcome editing to help

The fun for me is taking the image, the serious bit is trying to make it look good.

[matt]

Yep. Me too. I enjoy getting constructive feedback on my images and believe it's a good thing to ask for it too

[iceman (Mike)]

Originally Posted by Sharnbrook

I believe that there are too many "Excellent first shot" comments, when really the image is ordinary at the best. It would be far better to say nothing, than to give praise to a shot that really has nothing to commend it.

I don't agree with this. A first shot is a first shot. There's a lot to commend someone for actually a) getting out there and trying to take a picture, and b) posting it when they know it's not up to the standard that others might be.
I've often said "excellent first shot, better than my first shot" because in all honesty it is!! In saying comments like this, I hope that people look at my images now, they can see that through perseverence and hard work they can get great images.
Of course in an ideal world everyone would say "great first shot, next time try this or this or this", and often I do - but not every time. Sometimes I just don't have the time to reply to every image thread with indepth comments about how I'd improve it.

Newbies to imaging NEED encouragement. If everyone took the opinion of saying nothing if they couldn't help out in some way, it would be very discouraging for them to see 0 replies to their thread.

Originally Posted by jase

For those that feel inferior when posting a sub perfect image, remember people have traveled the same road before you. You will only improve with experience and knowledge sharing. Get out there and post those images and ask for constructive feedback. Don’t take your images to heart. Acknowledge them for what they are and look for flaws.

Well said.

Originally Posted by jase

I find the 150k limit restrictive, but understand there needs to be a limit. Those in the know usually provide links to their external website to better convey their work so that don't have to comply to such file size limitations. After all there is no point spending all this time collection data and image processing into a masterpiece when you can't display it in all its glory.

I know what you're saying and any file size limit is not ideal, but if you saw the size of the backups we need to take each night! There just has to be a limit for logistical reasons. As you say, most people upload higher-res images to their own website, or we offer an upload FTP area for storage of hi-res images as well.

[matt]

Originally Posted by iceman

I don't agree with this. A first shot is a first shot. There's a lot to commend someone for actually a) getting out there and trying to take a picture, and b) posting it when they know it's not up to the standard that others might be.
I've often said "excellent first shot, better than my first shot" because in all honesty it is!! In saying comments like this, I hope that people look at my images now, they can see that through perseverence and hard work they can get great images.
Of course in an ideal world everyone would say "great first shot, next time try this or this or this", and often I do - but not every time. Sometimes I just don't have the time to reply to every image thread with indepth comments about how I'd improve it.

Newbies to imaging NEED encouragement. If everyone took the opinion of saying nothing if they couldn't help out in some way, it would be very discouraging for them to see 0 replies to their thread.

That's about as good a summary of this issue as you'd hope to read.

[WadeH (Wade)]

While I agree to various extents with all of the coments made in this thread I feel that the most important thing is to remember that there are all levels of amatuers here from the fantastic picture takers like Mike etc with amazing gear and software to those such as myself with my little hand held compact digital and am lucky if I can do basic cropping and brightness controls.

I (and I am sure many others) am very happy to see any amount of, great first shot, for my pics. At least someone has taken the time to look and post a comment. I am sure that if they feel up to it and have the time, the advice will be comming.

As to making special beginers forums for pics etc, lets not go overbord and make things to complex, its nice to see our work amongst the greats!

[leon]

Spot on WadeH, I was going to add to your post, but I think you have said it all

Leon