Vixen introduce a very interesting Sphinx Mount SXD, 22KG payload capacity < $3K

[g__day (Matthew)]

On the subject of tripods, there's the option of with and without - a $200 difference at time of purchase. I guess folk like the option to compartmentalise costs they way they like it. As I want to pier mount my next mount, the tripod isn't immediately useful. So its a nice to have for me, if I'm on a budget.

On the 50 lbs = 22.7 Kgs vs 15 Kgs (2/3 of the weight) in America's highly litigaous society, I'm pondering if it may just be a carry capacity vs maximum recommended imaging weight.

Also I notice the mount comes standard with 12.4 lbs = 5.5 kgs of counterweight (even thou the motors act as a bit of counter weight from their posiitoning. If you wanted to maximum load this mount to say 22 Kgs would you need to add 12 Kgs - 15 Kgs of weight onto the bar? That looks like it might be a very tight squeeze from the layout of the mount versus counterweight bar and how full it looks with only 5.5 Kgs of weight. I'm thinking 3-4 times this would be one crowded bar!

I'd sure like to see this mount put through its paces at the maxium level of its specificed performance - wouldn't you?

[Stephan]

The Vixen - Sphinx SXD has a load capacity of 15kg as stated by the manufacturer in Japan. However, as you actually can only give a max torque, the statement of a payload rather a guideline. The max load can only be determined for a given lever length (the length of the particular telescope).

Also, a stated payload is not the structural limit of the mount. That is probably 5 or 10 times higher than the max payload. The payload is more an expression for a load at which the mount is not too sensitive to external disturbances such as wind or touching the telescope. Which at the end is more preference than a defined value. The other thing is there is no definition or rule on how the max payload is determined. Therefore each manufactures states whatever he thinks is okay. The EQ-6 for example is rated very differently too, some say 16kg is max other think 24kg.

As for the sphinx, a while ago I found some images on the web (can't remember where exactly) from a guy how used a Takahashi Epsilon 180ED on a normal sphinx and took images with exposures of 5min without any guiding. That is quite impressive. He quoted for the weight (including tube rings and camera etc) 14kg. That also means that the max payload for visually would be around 16-18kg. Therefore I can imagine that 20kg for the sphinx are really possible.

Clear Skies

Stephan

[g__day (Matthew)]

Replying to Astro-Optical Supplies today

Warren,

Thanks for your replies. Could you qualify three things further:

1. I know the mount has PEC, what's the PE before and after correction. If you say its 8 arc/secs before and as good as 2 arc/seconds after - you've answered my original question which remains was what is the raw, untrained PE; not does it have PEC yes/no - which is clearly advertised as a yes

2. Currently the SXD forgets PE training on every power down - a real bummer for those of us with permanent astro labs, is Vixen thinking of fixing this and if so by when?

3. Is 15 KGs the load capacity for astrophotography or visual? Generally they and Takahasi are very conservative on their carrying capacity. The six largest suppliers of scopes in the USA still quote 22.7 Kgs (for 4 months now) and the question has be raised multiple times on both Yahoo Groups for Vixen and CloudyNights - the two main online interest groups for astronomy in the USA. Vixen has stated stunningly quiet as to why the major US sites still insist on telling US suppliers (upon multiple customer queries) that the carrying capacity is 50lbs.

e.g.


http://www.vixenoptics.com/new.html

NEW Vixen Sphinx SXD DELUXE Mount
We can now offer the latest in what has become a family of Sphinx mounts. The SXD is built with steel RA and Dec shafts, needle bearings and accurate, heavy duty motors and gears. This astro-photographers dream mount now comes standard with “PEC” – Periodic Error Correction and polar finder scope. Load limit of 50 lbs!

http://www.adorama.com/VXSPHSXDHL13.html

Vixen Sphinx SXD Deluxe Mount with hal130 SX Tripod, Supports up to 50 lbs

http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=9634

The Sphinx D is capable of handling much larger OTAs than the standard Sphinx...up to 50 pounds!

http://www.buytelescopes.com/product.asp?t=&pid=12230&m=

Incorporating one piece hardened steel RA and DEC shafts with needle bearings throughout, the new Sphinx D can handle a load capacity up to 50 lbs

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php/Cat/0/Number/1525088/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/vc/1

The regular Sphinx D has a payload rating of 15.

The "SXD" Is a TOTALLY different mount that is based on the regular "D" model. This has a supposed payload rating of 50 lbs. This is also probably a visual payload rating. AP use would probably be a bit more than half of that.


http://vixen.binoculars.com/products/vixen-sphinx-sxd-mount-without-tripod-59133.html

the new Sphinx D can handle a load capacity up to 50 lbs

http://www.binoculars.com/products/vixen-sphinx-sxd-mount-with-hal130-sx-tripod-59134.html

Sphinx D can handle a load capacity up to 50 lbs


So its not one small seller told 15kgs - its 6 of the largest 7 sellers told 50lbs. Storm brewing!



Many thanks,


Matthew

----- Original Message -----

From: Astro Optical Supplies

To: Matthew

Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2007 6:12 PM

Subject: Re: VIXEN SPHINX DELUXE EQUATORIAL MOUNT

Hello Matthew,

My answers appear below your questions.

Contact us to order or for more information.

Best regards, Warren

=================================== =======================

ASTRO OPTICAL SUPPLIES

39 Hume Street 320 St Kilda Road

Crows Nest NSW 2065 St Kilda VIC 3129

AUSTRALIA

Ph: +61 2 9436 4360 +61 3 9593 9512

Fax: +61 2 9439 8926

astro@aapt.net.au

www.astro-optical.com.au

=================================== =======================

----- Original Message -----

From: Matthew

To: enquiry@astro-optical.com.au

Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 4:26 PM

Subject: VIXEN SPHINX DELUXE EQUATORIAL MOUNT

Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted by

Matthew on Saturday, June 2, 2007 at 14:26:06

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

body:

This looks a very interesting mount for someone that currently does astrophotography on a lower end goto mount (CG5).

I note the manufacturer says this mount has a carrying capacity of 50lbs which (dividing by 2.2) is 22.7kgs, not 15 kgs.

Some American sites have got the wrong information, its load capacity is 15Kg

Could you double check carrying capacity please.

Secondly do you have anly information of the Periodic Error of this new mount, I read that the original Spinx was +/- 8 arc seconds, is this version the same better or worse?

The mount has programmable PEC.

Thirdly can this mount's star book be connected to a PC running Cartes du Ceil and the ASCOM general drivers with Vixen specific add ons to fully computer control the slews and gotos?

I presume so, it is compatible with StarryNight & The Sky

Fourth can this mount accept a standard (S-BIG 4 compatible wiring) autoguider? I use PHD with a Meade DSI on an 80 mm Megrez to drive my CG5, and I'd love to simply transfer all my OTAs to a higher capacity mount.

It is compatible with S-BIG

Lastly what are the dimensions (diameter and depth of the base of teh mount and its central connecting screw)? I'd like to machine the right adapter to connect it to my custom pier.

The base is virtually the same as an EQ5 (which is a very loose copy of older Vixen mounts)

Many thanks,

Matthew (Sydney)

[g__day (Matthew)]

And

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthrea...b/5/o/all/vc/1

posted this content roughly elsewhere:

I went to Rivers Camera (Dover NH) today for their "Astroday"... in addition to Celestron and TV being there, Vixen Optic's Mike Fowler was in from California (and will be at NEAF shortly as well)...

He and I had a very lengthy discussion about all things Vixen; I found him to be supremely knowledgeable on every topic both Vixen and beyond...

He told me that the SXD specifically would handle 50 pounds; that externally it was a Sphinx SXW (the blue covers will be white) - but the key changes were that the spindles, key mechanicals, etc... inside were made of stainless steel, and that instead of roller bearings for RA/DEC it has hardened steel "needle bearings"...

This he said increased the weight limits and significantly improved tracking... it will have built-in Firmware upgrade to the Starbook for PEC, and the PEC firmware upgrade for us Sphinx SXW ownwers is "imminent" (yeay!)...

And it will come with the Vixen Polar alignment scope built in as well... All for around $2600-2700. He said it works best on the HAL tripod, which is much sturdier than many think it could be (my experience is that visually it is fine, I do not YET have enough AP experience to comment).

He also said that Vixen Japan is VERY conservative on their ratings... so, maybe that has something to do with this building 15Kg versus 50 pounds mini-controversy... can't speak to that...

My overall impression was that he was SO knowledgeable in every area I wanted to discuss with him that I don't think VO would intentionally mislead with the 50Lb claim

He also noted that they will shortly be bringing a new variant of the Atlux (can't remember the name) which will carry MORE and use SkyBook as well...

[Kal (Andrew)]

Originally Posted by g__day

So its not one small seller told 15kgs - its 6 of the largest 7 sellers told 50lbs. Storm brewing!

All of these retailers are US, and they are passing on the information that they would have received from the US distributer. The US distributer is not the manufacturer though, the only manufacturer is in Japan as far as I know.
A distributer (or a retailer) can rate a product to a higher specification than the manufacturer as long as they provide warranty support to that rating as far as I know. Perhaps this is simply the case here? The US distributer is rating it higher as it is willing to warrant that the mount will operate normally, and under full warranty, at up to 50lb?

[g__day (Matthew)]

Warren at Astro-Optical was kind enough to add more information:

1. I know the mount has PEC, what's the PE before and after correction. If you say its 8 arc/secs before and as good as 2 arc/seconds after - you've answered my original question which remains was what is the raw, untrained PE; not does it have PEC yes/no - which is clearly advertised as a yes
The PEC is to adjust for the PE of individual mounts as they vary in manufacture. We are unable to put a number on this correction.
2. Currently the SXD forgets PE training on every power down - a real bummer for those of us with permanent astro labs, is Vixen thinking of fixing this and if so by when?
Vixen have not announced such a modification
3. Is 15 KGs the load capacity for astrophotography or visual? Generally they and Takahasi are very conservative on their carrying capacity. The six largest suppliers of scopes in the USA still quote 22.7 Kgs (for 4 months now) and the question has be raised multiple times on both Yahoo Groups for Vixen and CloudyNights - the two main online interest groups for astronomy in the USA. Vixen has stated stunningly quiet as to why the major US sites still insist on telling US suppliers (upon multiple customer queries) that the carrying capacity is 50lbs.
It really is only Americans love of big numbers. This mount will accept a 15Kg telescope (this is what we call its load capacity) add two
3.7Kg counterweights & you end up with the mounts total loaded weight of 22.4Kg which is 49.38Lbs.

[g__day (Matthew)]

Well several months on Steve at MyAstroShop is now advertising these at $2,500 - which for a high performance, mid range weight carrying capacity seems an excellent choice:

http://www.myastroshop.com.au/produc...asp?id=MAS-069

[Dennis]

Thanks for the bulletin Matthew. This looks a great mount, offering excellent capabilities and functionality. If I didn't still have my GPDX and Skysensor 2000, I would consider getting one at this price. I’ve always been impressed with Vixen products which I have purchased (made in Japan) and they offer excellent value for money.

Cheers

Dennis