Global Warming..Science and Politics

[gaa_ian (Ian)]

That makes for very interesting reading Mike, Hmm C02 & CFC's heavier than air Eh !
Adds a whole new dimension to the perceived problem !

[Argonavis (William)]

Originally Posted by okiscopey

All of this nonsense is compounded by the media beating everything up. For And while we're about it, here's Ken Ring's views on the 'ozone hole' religion as well (funny we haven't heard much about it lately):

http://www.predictweather.com/ozone%...tion/index.asp

excellent post okiscopey

but.....not another crank long range weather forecaster?

The chemistry of how CFC's affect the ozone layer is very well understood. I remember reading a book about it many years ago. I think Ken has a severe credibility problem if he is attacking something for which there is a substantial body of knowledge and a degree scientific consensus. This is why there was *immediate* political action to ban CFC's in the industrialised world. There was no dissent at all. Ken is out there on a limb all by himself.

GW, on the other hand, looks dodgy, and needs a measured response at best.

[okiscopey (Mike)]

Originally Posted by Argonavis

but.....not another crank long range weather forecaster?

Yes, sorry about that, I didn't know much of his background and was taken in by some pages on that site. Should have done more research!

Here's a critique of Ring's predictions, very interesting reading:

http://www.astronomy.org.nz/aas/Jour...udoWeather.asp

[xelasnave]

Excellent posts .
Okiscopey you can explain the news to me any day
alex

[Argonavis (William)]

a good place to argue about the news is:

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/a...php/heraldsun/

[Argonavis (William)]

Originally Posted by okiscopey

Here's a critique of Ring's predictions, very interesting reading:

http://www.astronomy.org.nz/aas/Jour...udoWeather.asp

I have never come across anyone who thinks the Moon affects weather on the Earth.

although there seems to be lots of people who believe that the Moon, and especially the Full Moon, affects human behaviour. Well, yes but only to the extent that there is more light around at night during those times.

[gaa_ian (Ian)]

Well spotted Argonavis !
Just because someone has a very verbose website does not make it true, the mix of science & selective "Evidence" can be very seductive !
Reminds me of another revisionist "Science" being pushed around the place recently .... but we don't even want to go there do we !

[mickoking]

• Global warming is REAL, it is happening NOW

• Nuclear (fission) energy is NOT a solution

• Johnny H is only interested in global warming when it suits his policies (nukes and Washington)

• We have no leadership in this debate (particularly in Australia)

• Australia WILL suffer

Thank you for listening to my rant

[matt]

I'm ambivalent on this.

Whilst I am not anti nuclear per se, I am also certain there are far more suitable alternatives.

At the end of the day, we need something other than traditional fossil fuels.

And we need a massive shift in individual attitudes in our day-to-day lives.

I am completely into individual responsibility when it comes to the environment.

[xelasnave]

Mmmm I think I best keep away from that news site.. what an opportunity to "air" ones views.
Mick may I ask how you really feel about the issue . I envy your ability to come to the point .
If there is to be a national debate it may be wise to consider if the warming is man made or indeed can be controlled by humans. I suspect it is occurring but I doubt if it is entirely governed by human activity. Perhaps it has something to do with the aging of the Sun or is a cycle not shown by attempts to illustrate the problem to suit a sales campaign. If not governed by human activity the direction taken to manage the problem must be different (to the patch up that N Power can maybe offer).. A decision should be made if we can we control it.. if not (presumably) how can we best manage the change by sensible planning. Water supply is a pressing problem possibly related to GW but trying to stop GW to me could not bring a result which requires a better approach to water management irrespective of GW. I am very comforted by the contributions herein but am surprised that an opposing position has not been presented that maybe GW is a bit of a beat up for a vested interest (rather vested interests. as a lot of folk get their pay packet from the GW industry these days).
alex

[matt]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

I am very comforted by the contributions herein but am surprised that an opposing position has not been presented that maybe GW is a bit of a beat up for a vested interest (rather vested interests. as a lot of folk get their pay packet from the GW industry these days).
alex

Don't be surprised.

Maybe a lot of people simply don't see it that way.

And that doesn't make them sheep or any less enlightened or more duped or simpletons who can't see the "truth" or "the big picture".

They simply don't agree, Alex

[xelasnave]

Another thought .. think how we could ease the energy drain if we switched all lights off at say 9 pm .. I think of those office blocks with all gone home as wasteful but could we live with darkness over the city after about 9 pm . I have a feeling most everyone who visits these forums may go for the lights out suggestion... mmm vested interests again but why not
Lets try our own lobby attack on the lights er I mean do our bit to save the planet and motivate others to turn out the lights.
Will the electricity company be happy that we may reduce the strain on their resources or do they just want to sell more energy?
alex

[xelasnave]

AND Matt that is their right even if they are wrong ..not saying they are wrong either in this context . When folk feel strongly about issues some fight fair some dont all I ask is for a fair fight. Free speech is alive and well at Iceinspace to the point where opposing views get fair air time. Seems a little sad the case for "GW is being caused by humans and yellow cake will solve it" guys dont use the opportunity to engage some folk here who give it some thought. Given the media bias again I say it is conforting that an alternative view is alive and well.
alex

[matt]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Free speech is alive and well at Iceinspace to the point where opposing views get fair air time.

That's a good thing, Alex.

I've fought for it and defended it on many occasions. No-one's questioning your right to express yourself or debate an issue.

It just seems to me that you often present your point of view as "fact" and that if no-one else sees things your way it's because you're the only one capable of seeing the "truth"... and everyone else is being tricked and is incapable of understanding something that you've given much greater thought to.

That's just my reading between the lines, as you so strongly encourage and claim to practice.

Don't be offended. You've just got a bit of megalomania going on

I keep reading things like how you have freed your mind. How your view of things is the result of going against convention as if you are some radical free thinker and the rest of us are luddites still trapped by the machine, incapable of seeing the "real truth".

That gets a little tiresome.

Maybe we just don't agree or feel the need/point to argue with you.

But I've never said anyone isn't free to express their thought or opinions here.

Just don't tell us we're being tricked or can't see the deeper truth just because we don't see the truth as you see it.

Express your thoughts and theories. Sure, but please don't sound off like you are some type of visionary Messiah whose job it is to free us all from our mental/intellectual slavery and impoverishment

Sorry. These things always look worse in print than the tone in which they are really meant.

I'm not trying to offend. Honest. I'll leave it at that. This sort of thing never ends well in internet chat rooms or forums.

Cheers

[xelasnave]

Matt I can not disagree with anything you say . Your observations are valid and there will be many saying ..”Sock it to him Matt” . There are more flaws to my personality than you could list so I could not be offended when you hit on but a few ..and I am not offended I am delighted you take the time to make your input . . I like to think it is a product of loneliness and isolation but clearly its goes deeper than that .
It would be worse if I could not accept your observation.
It is an unfortunate style I agree and have often suspected I cut off debate simply by being passionate about what is being discussed. But I would like to think that it is a case of what you see is what you get… a cranky old man with little to talk about so he does .. That’s the way I see it so it is curious I translate into a know it all .. But I make my stand with what I have at my disposal.. Still look on the bright side as I said free speech is alive and well here and I recon it’s great you can say that to my face . Still you won’t get a promise that I will change my ways unfortunately .
alex

[matt]

Don't go changing, Alex.

When I said before that your observations are "interesting"... i meant interesting. I like reading your stuff. It's "out there", and where would we be without the variety of opinion and thought that makes this place what it is.

You keep being you. I'll keep being me. It's all good

[xelasnave]

Thank you Matt..needless to say I take it all as a compliment..part of the condition I recon.
Have you heard the yarn about the lady who says to her husband
.."you may be good looking but you are lazy, arogant, absent minded and rude"
... husband replies... "Oh you think I am good looking do you?"
I am not that husband but somehow I relate to picking thru whats there for the good bits.
Fate is smiling upon me, the clouds have cleared so maybe I will get a look at this comet.
Good night and best wishes.
alex

[matt]

Enjoy, mate

[GrahamL]

Great read .. talking to my father a few years back on solar /wind
power .. and knowing he spent many years of his working life in the power
industry .. his simple coment was ..How do you maintain a power grid
if the sun don't shine and the wind don't blow ? ,presuming I guess that
both these options figure in the scheme of things majorly in the years to come .

Read a great article in NS recently which made a pretty fair case that the
earth is still comeing out of a mini ice age from the 15th century
.. and warming as a result , it also pointed out if i remember that
the data spikes markedly on warming temps a while after the start of the "industrial age " so as to say that ..WE .. while arn't the only cause sure
are a contributer .

I like the petri dish scenerio .. while some of us like to try and ****e around the outside where its less noticable where all doing our bit to foul the medium. .

[xelasnave]

Saw the comet and got some out of focus snaps but terriffic its been a long wait. I feel more positive and experienced an uplifting upward mood swing.
Caught a little news and it seems that Mr Blair is calling for new paper work re GW .
Given our (Australias) stand to date and our PM saying anyone not recognising the problem is "not real" or was it "unreal"... recent facts yet already hazy ..it will be interesting to hear our reply when presented with the new paper work .
alex