Online/overseas shopping about to change re GST

[glend (Glen)]

Originally Posted by Wavytone

IMHO Malcom Turnbull has just created a business opportunity.

Someone with half a brain could set up a company offshore to ship goods into Australia by buying goods at offshore prices ex-GST and shipping consolidated consignments here for say 2-3%, buyer saves 7-8% over local cost. A simple arrangement is that the good are purchased by this company and resold, as secondhand to the end consumer in Aus.

Now consider what the total cashflow of what Aussies buy overseas is for goods purchased overseas...

Even if you snaffled 10% of the trade, 2-3% margin on that is a hefty sum, and more than enough to make it happen.

Anyone want to get rich, in 12 months flat ?

Australia Post already has an offshore consolidated shipping point in Oregon. But I would be pretty sure the ATO would be expecting Aus Post to collect and remit GST. Representing new goods as second hand grey market is likely to draw a fair amount of attention pretty quick. They are probably anticipating that sort of thing. Good luck.

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by Wussell

Has Harvey Norman not got enough money!!!
It all boils down to one thing.....GREED.
They will not be happy until the majority of us are living in the gutter, and politicians dont care because they are rorting the system to feather their own nest at our expense. They are nothing more than criminals in suites.

Rant over

I refuse to buy from that little bast*ard on principle. Cant stand him on any level

[h0ughy (David)]

Originally Posted by glend

Australia Post already has an offshore consolidated shipping point in Oregon. But I would be pretty sure the ATO would be expecting Aus Post to collect and remit GST. Representing new goods as second hand grey market is likely to draw a fair amount of attention pretty quick. They are probably anticipating that sort of thing. Good luck.

from an email sent to me by shopmate

GST is coming for low value imports – understand what it means for you when using ShopMate
Hi xxzxzxzx,

The Australian Government has passed laws which extend the Goods and Services Tax (GST) to low value imports of physical goods.

This change will mean that from 1 July 2018, Australia Post will be required to collect GST from you on items valued at $1,000AUD or less that you ship into Australia using ShopMate, and pay that GST to the Australian Tax Office (ATO). The rate of GST is 10%.

The existing processes to collect GST on imports with values above $1,000AUD will remain the same.
Find out more


GST will be payable on:
1. The value of the item(s) you are shipping into Australia via ShopMate including any shipping fees or local taxes paid to the USA retailer, and
2. The value of the ShopMate shipping and service fee (including Extra Cover if applicable)
From 1 July 2018, each time you check out a ShopMate parcel and declare the value of the goods, you will be asked to provide payment for your ShopMate shipping and the applicable GST all in the same transaction.

What you need to do:
Within 48 hours of providing payment for each ShopMate transaction you will need to email Australia Post the invoice you receive from your USA retailer.*

How to email us your invoice:
1. Simply email a copy of your USA retailer invoice to ShopMateInvoice@auspost.com.au
2. Include your first and last name and ShopMate Suite Number in the email subject line
o Your suite number is the second address line of your ShopMate USA address
o e.g. Subject line: John Smith, Suite SM-2364-5833

[pmrid (Peter)]

My simplistic view of the world suggests rather strongly that the cost of collecting the GST on goods under $1000 will exceed the revenue recovered.

A whole infrastructure will have to be created, staffed and funded to do it.

Assume an average transaction of A$500. GST to be collected A$50. All inbound parcels - not just some, will have to have their customs declarations checked. And someone will have to decide whether the declared value is true or false e.g. understated valuations. Then all items that are dutiable have to be physically separated from those that are not. That will create a dual delivery system - GST-free goods to go for AustPost or other delivery as quickly as possible. Those that are dutiable will have to go to some sort of central holding facility while their GST is collected.

Then a payment mechanism will have to be created - probably a telephone-bank system with people cold-calling you (where the phone number is declared on the customs declaration), and persuade the consignee to give some credit card details to a stranger. Any potential for scams here?? And many people will balk at that.

It goes on and on. The reasons for the $1000 limit established way back when, are still sound.

All that is happening here is that Harvey Norman has tried to force more people into his retail channels. I hope, really, really, hope that it backfires on him very badly. I loathe and detest that guy.

Peter

[luka]

Peter, it is only partially operating that way. While, like you said, a whole infrastructure has to be created, staffed and funded, it will not be in Australia. The overseas retailers will have to do it all and carry the cost.

They will have to collect the GST at the purchase time. They will have to keep records and, I am guessing, lodge the equivalent of the Business Activity Statements to the ATO and also send the collected GST to the ATO.

I can see some retailers simply saying no, some retailers caving in and some retailers starting to charge us extra fee on the top of GST for the administrative work. Why not, everybody is ripping us off already anyway.
And then there are giants like Amazon who said no to try to force us to their Australian site which is way more expensive than their US site.

Just imagine the rest of the world joining the tax grab and making the system impossibly complicated...

[AndrewJ]

A whole infrastructure will have to be created, staffed and funded to do it.

Just look at it this way, all the people on the scrapheap due to automation and offshoring of jobs can get local jobs manually handling all the bits. The system still wont fully pay for itself, but the reduction in dole payments would help to offset it.
I gotta say, i find some of the comments in this thread rather selfish.
Everyone wants the cheapest products, many made in slavery/slum conditions by people on starvation wages, whilst also wanting to live in a country like ours, with all its benefits ( paid for by taxes ).

If you want truly cheap products, emigrate to a low cost country.

Andrew

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by AndrewJ

Just look at it this way, all the people on the scrapheap due to automation and offshoring of jobs can get local jobs manually handling all the bits. The system still wont fully pay for itself, but the reduction in dole payments would help to offset it.
I gotta say, i find some of the comments in this thread rather selfish.
Everyone wants the cheapest products, many made in slavery/slum conditions by people on starvation wages, whilst also wanting to live in a country like ours, with all its benefits ( paid for by taxes ).

If you want truly cheap products, emigrate to a low cost country.

Andrew

Rubbish. Its just an example of inept government making life harder for everyone else because they are incapable of balancing a budget... and this wont work either!

[glend (Glen)]

Originally Posted by el_draco

Rubbish. Its just an example of inept government making life harder for everyone else because they are incapable of balancing a budget... and this wont work either!

Well watch what happens. If people get upset enough Labour will see an opportunity to skewer the Libs and promise to rescind the GST on purchases of less than $1000 on the grounds it hurts their core constituency. IE the impact of the GST is harder on people earning less and the more well off don't notice the cost. It's the same song being sung on scaled tax cuts.

[AndyG (Andy)]

Originally Posted by el_draco

I refuse to buy from that little bast*ard on principle. Cant stand him on any level

I don't know how it is in other cities, but HN ads saturate all commercial radio stations here in Townsville. Once cannot last for 5mins without "Go Harvey Norman, GO!". I sincerely believe that HN ads get equal airtime to ANY form of music.


Whilst you hear radio playing in various workshops and small stores around town, HN ads resemble (in frequency and consistency) a 1984 style matra, or nationalistic music belting out on a busy Pyongyang intersection.


It's wierd, hearing it from the outside (as someone who hasn't listened to radio/TV for years).

[AndrewJ]

Its just an example of inept government making life harder for everyone else because they are incapable of balancing a budget..

Balancing a budget is easy.
Remove Medicare levy and any ability for tax deductions.
Apply a flat rate of tax above a base tax free threshold ( ie poverty line )

Remove all welfare and health subsidies, legal aid etc etc.
Budget balanced overnight.
Dont think i would like to live in a society like that.

Andrew

[axle01 (Alan)]

In the past I purchased camera and Astro gear from a company in Indiana that doesn’t have the US tax which is about 7 percent if I remember correctly then they would send it to my friend in New York (mostly free postage) then he would send it to me as a second hand item.
I have saved thousand of dollars doing it this way.

Al

[doppler (Rick)]

I wonder if local suppliers will take the opportunity to increase their prices because of the increased prices of directly imported goods?

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by AndrewJ

Balancing a budget is easy.
Remove Medicare levy and any ability for tax deductions.
Apply a flat rate of tax above a base tax free threshold ( ie poverty line )

Remove all welfare and health subsidies, legal aid etc etc.
Budget balanced overnight.
Dont think i would like to live in a society like that.

Andrew

Here's a better way,

Build an economic/tax system that works.
(ie)
- NO loopholes for the rich/corporates.
- Tax friggin churches and the AFL;
- Zero fund sport
- Mega-Fund primary health care
- Stop trying to keep people alive who don't do anything to help themselves, smokers, junkies, boozers and the like.
- 5000% tax on sugar
- Stop economics based on perpetual growth
- Mandate a balanced budget
- Death duties on filthy rich
- Stop subsidising fossil fuels.
- No effort at school, NO dole and No free ride.
- Become self sufficient nationally...
- Population cap

... and that's just to start with. The "pointy things" in charge couldn't balance a piggy bank and they supposedly rely on parasites called "economists". History has proven categorically that economist have never, ever had the slightest clue on how to run an economy.

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by AndyG

Whilst you hear radio playing in various workshops and small stores around town, HN ads resemble (in frequency and consistency) a 1984 style matra, or nationalistic music belting out on a busy Pyongyang intersection.

Spot on. I don't listen to commercial radio anymore cos I got sick of punching the dial every time that crap jingle came on. I'd enjoy doing the same to that mongrel in person.

[AndrewJ]

Gday Rom
Most of what you said lines up with what i proposed, but as i noted, it would be a nightmare to live in.

Mega-Fund primary health care

Thats sounding a bit too socialist ( and expensive )

Sooooooo a big no to that, as it now costs too much to keep people alive. There are more than enough people on the planet now to responsibly allow general revenue money to be spent on keeping the weak alive as a burden on the rest.

Become self sufficient nationally

Thats very difficult when everyone wants to buy cheap ( subsidised ) product from overseas, ( which is what this thread is really all about )

Stop economics based on perpetual growth

Thats the only bit i really agree on, but as a species, we are selfish and greedy, so it aint going to happen.
Andrew

[GrahamL]

I think HN and a lot of other storefront retailers never really understood how the internet has made specialty shopping an important part of retail sales .Sure I'll walk through the door for a fridge / washing machine , imported lounge (HN)but the other stuff, kmart etc cover a lot of it , and theres still all that space there for small niche buisneses to fill the gaps
I'm not sure this expanded tax will change a lot for Gerrys plight his buisness model went south a long while back (like spilt milk )

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by RickS

If Harvey Norman can't buy & ship in bulk and remain competitive with one-off overseas transactions then they don't deserve to be in business, IMO.

Exactly.

Australian businesses are providing overpriced products to Australians, under collusion with our corrupt government.

The last time I looked at our constitution, our elected MPs serve we, the people, and NOT businesses. Businesses should have ZERO say in our politics, and ZERO influence. Every politician that voted on this bill has broken the Australian constitution imho.

An example of gouging from local distributors/retailers - I wanted a book on luftwaffe '46 planes - Amazon US had a few copies going for USD $88 (in stock, ready to ship). Dymocks Australia? The VERY same book, AUD $420, not in stock, Six week wait, and shipping costs of $40 on top of that. Dymocks were not EVEN close to the Amazon price. This sort of price gouging is a regular occurence btw.

The same applies to many things - I had a look at JB Hifi recently to see if they stocked Sting's dream of the blue turtles album on CD? Nope. Nada. nothing. Sanity Australia (via their Ebay store) stocks it new. JB? Nope.

Australians buy overseas for a variety of reasons:

a) you simply CANNOT get the same product from ANY Australian retailer

b) Australian retailers price gouge Australians because there is no competition, and also price collude with other major retailers to "protect" their market

Instead of our government investigation Australian businesses, and punishing them, they punish the average working Australian.

revenue raising? How about our corrupt government punish those big US based corporations (Apple anyone?) that pay almost NO Tax in Australia. The government knows it, and does nothing about it. Why?

Why are Australians stupid enough to keep voting these governments in, time after time, when it's clearly evident that they do not care about Australians? I have no idea. They don't get my vote (Mr. Donkey Vote gets mine).

I suggest that Australians boycott the next election en masse and refuse to even show up to the voting booths. Sometimes civil disobedience is the ONLY way to enforce we, the people's wills on an unwilling government that no longer serves us.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by multiweb

Regardless of where taxes are collected Amazon are mongrels to penalize aussies and make up BS saying it is complicated to cater for aussie orders and "move" stock to the .com.au with limited availability. eBay didn't.

This is incorrect Marc. Amazon US will not ship to an Australian address. In fact, they'll just auto redirect any Australian based IP address to the Amazon Australia website. Amazon Australia will calculate and add GST.

My issues are that I should have the legal right to continue to buy from Amazon US and ship any said item that I've ordered to my US proxy shipping address. Of course, my US proxy shipping addresses uses DHL for shipping, and DHL has a shipping basis in Australia, so will have to enforce GST. That means customs will hold any incoming goods, no matter where they come from, until GST is paid.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by Wavytone

IMHO Malcom Turnbull has just created a business opportunity.

Someone with half a brain could set up a company offshore to ship goods into Australia by buying goods at offshore prices ex-GST and shipping consolidated consignments here for say 2-3%, buyer saves 7-8% over local cost. A simple arrangement is that the good are purchased by this company and resold, as secondhand to the end consumer in Aus.

Now consider what the total cashflow of what Aussies buy overseas is for goods purchased overseas...

Even if you snaffled 10% of the trade, 2-3% margin on that is a hefty sum, and more than enough to make it happen.

Anyone want to get rich, in 12 months flat ?

As far as I understand, the new tax is applied to ANY goods, new or 2nd hand, if they originate from overseas.

Any items entering Australia will have to pass through customs, and customs will hold them until GST is paid.

Also, as far as I understand, this new legislation, unlike many other countries, does not allow GST to be nulled if you've paid local taxes in the country of purchase. Of course, you are under no obligation to pay foreign taxes on goods purchased in overseas markets, but it possibly would be cheaper in some instances than Australian GST.

I predict that GST will be raised to 20-25% within the next 3=5 years if the LNP stays in power.

Australia is already the highest taxed country in the world...with the highest rates of personal debt, and one of the highest real estate costs, and also one of the highest costs of living too...and Australians are too stupid and/or lazy to refuse to vote for any current political party...none of which are hear to serve us I might add. Call me an anarchist (I am at heart), but we need to start disobeying our government, en masse, and real soon.

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Originally Posted by el_draco

Here's a better way,

Build an economic/tax system that works.
(ie)
- NO loopholes for the rich/corporates.
- Tax friggin churches and the AFL;
- Zero fund sport
- Mega-Fund primary health care
- Stop trying to keep people alive who don't do anything to help themselves, smokers, junkies, boozers and the like.
- 5000% tax on sugar
- Stop economics based on perpetual growth
- Mandate a balanced budget
- Death duties on filthy rich
- Stop subsidising fossil fuels.
- No effort at school, NO dole and No free ride.
- Become self sufficient nationally...
- Population cap

... and that's just to start with. The "pointy things" in charge couldn't balance a piggy bank and they supposedly rely on parasites called "economists". History has proven categorically that economist have never, ever had the slightest clue on how to run an economy.

generally good ideas, but the problems with no welfare are multitude. I have some physical and mental health issues that are making it very difficult for me to gain employment. Aside from my age (49) and lack of a degree that is suddenly considered a pre-requisite for suitability for employment. There are 600k unemployed, and 240k available jobs. Last I looked, with my competent maths skills, employing every one of them is near impossible when there's not enough jobs to go around. You will also see a massive rise in crime if you kill welfare. We all know how well the US system is going (which is pretty much what you want...). If I am left with no other options, I will happily engage in a life of crime. Society reaps what it sows.