First one out the door ...

[lazjen (Chris)]

Note that if you go over the "barrier" it opens up a can of worms legal-wise from what I've been reading. Be careful taking it on to non-private land.

I got my bike this afternoon. It looks like this one: https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/image/d...ike-Unisex.jpg (I haven't taken decent pics yet ).

I did a 21.7k first ride (about 1hr) and it was great with a lot of capacity left in the battery (using max assist too). The hills were tackled quite handily and our local bike lanes and bike path are pretty good. I was thinking it would take me a while to work up to commuting (approx 20k each way), but I think once I get some extra gear I'll be jumping straight to it.

So, Brent, once again I say, I think you're in the right market. As they become more popular, the volume will help drive down the costs, etc so even more people will get them. And, of course, the tech will improve too especially with the batteries. They're great enablers.

[ZeroID (Brent)]

Originally Posted by inertia8

I'm keenly following this, starting work at a new client in March and my commute on a bike would be approx 2hrs/35km/300m elev change each way (according to google).. not much further than the 1hr 40min it'd take now.

I've always felt daunted by the prospect of riding in and wonder if an ebike to assist with the hills would work out to be a good compromise over driving.

Taking the car depends heavily on peak traffic and accidents, anywhere from 55mins to 1hr 50mins according to google (not much help!).

I looked at:
http://dillengerelectricbikes.com.au/

I take it these things are off-road only.. given the power! Would be nifty to have something that could cut that commute down

My current bike is an 2012 Avanti Explorer 3.0, it's a nice hybrid, good disc brakes, front suspension, not sure how suitable this would be for a conversion kit? I would happily go over the 250w/25km/h barrier too as the majority of my riding is not on the roads.

Over 250Watts (Aust) and 25 kph assist limit should only (legally) be used off road as is similar for 300watts and 32 kph in NZ. But I don't know how you'd check it. The 300 watt motor over here is a unrestricted 350watt elsewhere, Same motor, don't know how they control the motor output. But I'm not concerned with hacking the speed control as there is no rego or licensing requirement for on the road. How can they tell.

Based on my own riding but not knowing your 35 km ride parameters theoretically it should be possible in about 1 hr 40 min by bike. Mine is road and traffic to deal with, YMMV of course. I'd suggest you'd want a charger at work to top it up again for the ride home.

Just checked your Advanti Explorer 3.0 specs, very similar to the Merida on my website, easy conversion. But I'd probably do a rear rack and big 15.4 Amp hour battery for the distance.

Chris> Nice one, take it easy and don't bust a gut. The temptation is to go fast and hard but you'll pay for it unless you get into condition a bit


To All the well wishers on here that have posted and listened to my evolving little enterprise story on here. Thanks to you all for your encouragement, feedback and positive thoughts. It has been a surprising help as it develops and grows. You guys are just awesome ...


EDIT: Just chkd the Dillinger site, their midmount motor kit is the same as ours, BBS01 Bafang although it shows the non torque kit components.

[lazjen (Chris)]

Brent, thanks, but I'm not busting a gut. Managed to do another 29km ride today, although this was tougher - hotter and some saddle uncomfortableness. The bike's doing most of the work on the tough bits and I've been mostly coasting down the hills.

I'll be having a rest day tomorrow and hope to get a short ride on the weekend sometime maybe. It's the saddle soreness that's limiting me now, as the bike is providing the crutch in terms of power because of my limited fitness. It's allowing me to slowly rebuild the fitness, but still achieve getting places in a reasonable timeframe.

[inertia8 (Australia)]

Thanks Brent for the reply,

For some unknown reason I bought a Brooks saddle last year and, coincidentally, I haven't ridden much during that same past year and am trying to build up to going on longer rides... The saddle is still currently rock hard and I'm hoping that with use it will soften and be the most comfortable saddle that the internet says it should be... the internet never lies right?

[inertia8 (Australia)]

Just some thoughts on the batteries.

Many of the batteries at first glance seemed on the expensive side to me, but doing the math doesn't back this up.. From a quick search, many appear to use 18650 cells (often the Samsung 25R 2500mah high drain), the same type of cells as I use for my super bright torches that draw higher amps and that are found in power tool batteries, nominally cost around $4-$12ea depending on brand (some are not high drain and give higher mah values)..

If we are dealing with 18650 2500mah cells for a 48v 10ah pack (some packs are lower voltage).

13 cells in series gives 48.1v @ 3.7v/cell nominal or 54.6v @ 4.2v/cell fully charged.
Add 4 of these in parallel gives 10000mah.

So that's 52 cells if I'm correct with the above calcs and assumptions on configuration.

The prices I have seen appear to beat the individual cell prices by a fair margin, especially when considering the labour to assemble, the hard pack casing, waterproofing and any other electronics that may or may not be present.. such as low/high voltage protection cutoffs, status displays and usb port(s) for charging your phone or powering a light set.

I did see one manufacture Karmic was trying to offer a battery pack where you could replace the individual cells, for their kickstarter project, which is extremely appealing given the propensity for a couple of cells to get out of balance and die prematurely.. but seemingly they have failed to bring that to market and now offer a sealed 44v pack.

And it would also appear that there is some more compact Lithium (presumably LiFeP04?) battery packs available from some ebike retailers.

It could be perhaps DIY'd with cheaper cells and maybe some heatshrink but seems to be an aweful lot of soldering or the use of brackets or other chemistries.

I will be saving towards a conversion kit, but may bite the bullet and just buy a factory bike once the funds are available.

[ZeroID (Brent)]

Originally Posted by inertia8

Thanks Brent for the reply,

For some unknown reason I bought a Brooks saddle last year and, coincidentally, I haven't ridden much during that same past year and am trying to build up to going on longer rides... The saddle is still currently rock hard and I'm hoping that with use it will soften and be the most comfortable saddle that the internet says it should be... the internet never lies right?

Saddle angle can be quite important. I had mine (on another bike) pointed too high and that became very uncomfortable in certain regions of my male anatomy. Dropped it down a few degrees and it made all the difference. But I have yet to find a soft saddle, that's why bike pants have a padded section in that area. Longer rides I become a MIMAL except in my case it's an OAPIL ( old age pensioner in lycra ) Must be a hell of a sight when I go whizzing past

[inertia8 (Australia)]

Reading into the legalities of ebike's in Victoria.

If you use Pedelec system that is >250w and can reach speeds of > 6 km/h in non-pedelec (throttle only) mode, you are essentially deemed to be riding an unlicensed motorcycle for the purposes of the law.

So, not allowed on roads and not allowed on Bike/Shared Paths.

Correct?

The >250w appeals to me for greater assistance with steep hill climbs, that said I've not tried one of these out yet.. first step will be to do so.

I see there is a product by dillenger called the switcheroonie, which enables the user to reflash the Bafang 48v controllers to scale back the power and limit throttle speeds or you can disable the throttle altogether. Essentially you could pass a test if called upon to do so (and had been a good little citizen and reflashed it prior to riding on roads or paths.

I cannot really see if this is legal or not, they reckon it makes them comply with the restrictions.

Legally, probably only an issue if you collide with another road/path user and it goes to court or if you are caught being silly doing 40kmh on paths etc??

Would it have to be proven that the additional power was a contributing factor in the accident for this to be an issue, for insurance to be voided etc?

[lazjen (Chris)]

Yes, go to an ebike store and see if you can get a test ride and try some hills if you can. You might be surprised at how effective a legal ebike can be.

[inertia8 (Australia)]

I shall do.

That said I've got a modified car (vas engineered).. So chances are I'd be tempted to go for more power!

[ZeroID (Brent)]

Originally Posted by inertia8

Reading into the legalities of ebike's in Victoria.

........
The >250w appeals to me for greater assistance with steep hill climbs, that said I've not tried one of these out yet.. first step will be to do so.

.....

From Jim, my earlier bike conversion, his comments. (This guy is riding with one lung hence the need )
hi Brent,

Just thought to give you an update on my bike
Your retrofit to my bike has been truly awesome. Have just completed my first 100k'''s at an average speed of 18kph.
There have been some significant climbs in this total which I would have been unable to attempt, without the electric assist.
So overall a big thank you for your prompt attention to detail for the whole transaction

with regards,
Jim xxxxxxx'

I can reset the top speed assist or delimit it on the kit we use. Can't change the motor output though.

The 6kmh is the walk mode. If you are walking the bike rather than riding, it allows you to apply some assist to help you push it up the steep hill or whatever. Also adjustable but I leave it alone.
Over here the limits are 300 watts, 32 kmh and 6 kmh, same sort of thing, different numbers slightly.

[inertia8 (Australia)]

Excellent feedback from your customer, it must give you a good boost seeing that!

I'm trying to see where my closest ebike dealer is for a test ride.. I don't like to waste peoples time but I need to know whether I'd be happy with the 250-350w model... I do wish to get some exercise benefit from it!

[lazjen (Chris)]

Here's another bit of data for you.

I did a short ride this afternoon, but I deliberately targeted a nearby hill. It goes from a 3% grade to nearly 17% for about 1km.

Did it on my street legal ebike, max assist, sitting down. Looks like the lowest speed I hit was about 17km/hr (actually that probably an average, so it might have been less). I felt it, but wasn't out of breath at the top. Not bad for an unfit person I think.

[ZeroID (Brent)]

Originally Posted by inertia8

Excellent feedback from your customer, it must give you a good boost seeing that!

I'm trying to see where my closest ebike dealer is for a test ride.. I don't like to waste peoples time but I need to know whether I'd be happy with the 250-350w model... I do wish to get some exercise benefit from it!

I ride to work on '2' ... I get exercise. You can put the power to '0' if you like and really feel the pain. Lower the power setting, the more work you do. It's all proportional.

But you can have an easy ride home afterwards when you're all hot and knackered.

I guarantee you will get exercise ... for sure !

.. And yeah, I was really pleased to get the feedback, He did 9 km uphill !! Epic !

[ZeroID (Brent)]

Originally Posted by lazjen

Here's another bit of data for you.

I did a short ride this afternoon, but I deliberately targeted a nearby hill. It goes from a 3% grade to nearly 17% for about 1km.

Did it on my street legal ebike, max assist, sitting down. Looks like the lowest speed I hit was about 17km/hr (actually that probably an average, so it might have been less). I felt it, but wasn't out of breath at the top. Not bad for an unfit person I think.

Big softie ..!! Shoulda put it on the lowest and had a proper workout.

But it does just show you how effective it is when it needs to be. I do my driveway one handed cos my other hand is normally full of mail and papers. The other week I actually towed the empty wheelie bin up with one hand

[lazjen (Chris)]

Originally Posted by ZeroID

Big softie ..!! Shoulda put it on the lowest and had a proper workout.

Haha, indeed. I'm getting enough of a workout getting used to it all. 90km riding this week so far, with 2 x 20km rides today. I hope to do my first commute to work early next week.

Originally Posted by ZeroID

But it does just show you how effective it is when it needs to be. I do my driveway one handed cos my other hand is normally full of mail and papers. The other week I actually towed the empty wheelie bin up with one hand

Yeah, good power. I really appreciate when I have to cross intersections or do the mid-island "hops" to get across a busy road. Just get across quick smart, no messing around.

[N1 (Mirko)]

Originally Posted by lazjen

I hope to do my first commute to work early next week.

Good on ya!

[PCH (Paul)]

I just looked at the prices of these beasties on the website in Brissy that Chris posted.

Wowee!! These are super expensive. You can get a damn fine motorbike with all the technology that goes with it for that type of money.

Are people happy to shell out $5-8k for these e-bikes?

Seems like a hell of an investment. Pretty cool target for thieves too!

I wonder if they'll come down in price as they get more popular.

[inertia8 (Australia)]

I personally couldn't justify paying $5-6k for one by can potentially justify saving up and buying a kit (circa $1.5k) to convert my existing bike.

There are cheaper options at well under $2k, though they are often the folding type with smaller wheels (not sure how you'd go with one of those for long trips if the battery went bad, probably call home and fold the thing up into the boot!)

That said, some of the super lightweight road and serious off road bicycles can be just as expensive... A friend worked in a bike shops for years and the money thrown around to impress on the latte circuits was eye watering. Each to his own!

[lazjen (Chris)]

There are definitely much cheaper ebikes and conversion is also another option (I had no bike to convert). For me, I was willing to pay more to get everything I wanted in the ebike. I'll be commuting a decent distance per day and need something that can handle it.

Note that as an ebike I don't need to pay for registration, etc. Technically as a motorbike rider you're going to be caught in the same traffic as cars, although I know most motorbike riders are willing to either break the law or ride a bit unsafely to get around the traffic. On a bike, I get to use the bike paths, etc and can legally beat the traffic (and public transport) into work (in the CBD). And seriously, with the route I can take to get to work, I do not need to break any laws on the ebike.

Also, I gave up my gym membership since I can get exercise riding instead. The ride also saves me an extra 1 hour per week day I was going to the gym.

I've calculated I'll "pay off" the cost (by not using public transport, not going to the gym and replacing some car trips) in about 2 or 3 years. That's just the "economics" and doesn't count the improvement in fitness (I hope). I suspect there's an environmental benefit as well, but I can't be sure given ebike construction/materials. Ignoring that part, there's obviously a benefit in replacing car, bus and maybe train use.

As for being a target for thieves - yeah, that's always been on the cards for almost any bike. Fortunately for my commuting, the office I'm currently in and the one we're moving to in the CBD, have secure parking where I can lock the bike. I've also got a bike lock that requires an angle grinder to get through.

So, yeah, definitely an investment, but one I consider worth it, but it's not going to be the same for everyone. It's just like some people spend a lot of money on their astro gear that others may consider super expensive.

[inertia8 (Australia)]

Sounds like you've got it sussed Chris.

My business case for it would be shaky. Given the distance and time for commuting by bike I don't think I would have the commitment to riding everyday. I didn't do so to my previous work address and that was closer by about km, albeit the land from there to my new work address is fairly glat, the kicker is that if I ride to the new workplace, I'll be riding past the old one on the yarra river.

I too use a bit abus lock. The skunk lock kickstarter seemed a good idea too :p