Deep field anyone?

[clive milne]

'll put another one up there for consideration.. the Phoenix cluster?

[RickS (Rick)]

I'm happy to have a go... once I have a permanent set up under dark skies. Give me a few years and I'll get there

Cheers,
Rick.

[Atmos (Colin)]

Originally Posted by clive milne

Being serious for a second here... what about a galactic cirrus survey?

Pretty much anyone with a CCD camera, basic lens, rudimentary skills, equatorial mount and a dark sky could contribute... data reduction I will leave to Ray.
... he's a machine ... T5000 prototype I'm guessing.

Tis a good idea but does require dark skies unless imaging in narrowband.... Picking up Ha for instance.

LMC with 85mm lens somewhat like you have in mind? Dropping back to 50mm for both LMC and SMC perhaps.

[clive milne]

Originally Posted by Atmos

Tis a good idea but does require dark skies unless imaging in narrowband.... Picking up Ha for instance.

LMC with 85mm lens somewhat like you have in mind? Dropping back to 50mm for both LMC and SMC perhaps.

Yes Colin, as a part of a long term, wide field sky survey, every data point would have merit on some level... even if it is to record simply: "that which was not there"
The core essence of the scientific method.

[Atmos (Colin)]

The great thing about the galactic cirrus is that the lens required for it do not need to be optically perfect, mostly need to have a fast F/ratio. Something like the Signs 50mm Art F/1.4 which is quite well corrected over an FX sensor and fast would work well. Couple that with the old/ancient/archaic KAF-11002 sensor would work quite well.

Or something close to what I'd like to attempt is a Samyang 24mm F/2 with the ASI1600. Although to be quite honest, a higher read noise is somewhat preferred over the 10000 subs that the ASI would produce!

[xelasnave]

Well what is the first step.
Form a core group?
Start with a simple object to get the machine working?
Systems methods?
This could develop into something grand and we maybe able to contribute.
How long could we take an exposure 10 contributes each putting up 10/hours..100 contributors each putting up 20 hours. 50?
Alex

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by Atmos

Tis a good idea but does require dark skies unless imaging in narrowband.... Picking up Ha for instance.

LMC with 85mm lens somewhat like you have in mind? Dropping back to 50mm for both LMC and SMC perhaps.

It would be seriously cool to catch the stream between the two galaxies...

[Stonius (Markus)]

Just curious how you'd go about matching the distortions that are unique to each optical system? Would you make a custom distortion map for each one? I figure pictures of stars will be particularly unforgiving in this regard, but what do I know? Maybe you guys eat optical distortions for breakfast!

Markus

[Shiraz (Ray)]

suggested this a few years ago, but no real interest at that time. http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=95522.
However, count me in if we are looking at a bit of the sky with no cirrus and very few stars - just lots of far off galaxies. If we are to make any sense of the little blobs, seeing-limited resolution will be essential (ie maybe 1arcsec or better sampling would be appropriate).

If we get to 1m equivalent aperture, we could consider doing some actual science stuff - any ideas? Hubble is so narrow field that we we could possibly contribute something useful to complement what they are doing - maybe one of the frontier fields for a starter? https://frontierfields.org/
I already have over 50 hours on Abell370 and Abell2744

As far as I can see, the biggest technical issue will be scattered light. Ultimately, the depth will be determined by how clean the various optics are and it may be difficult to come up with a specification/methodology that will protect data from low-scatter systems and exclude data with lots of scattered light.

[xelasnave]

Anyone have any idea how far back we could go?
Alex

[Shiraz (Ray)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Anyone have any idea how far back we could go?
Alex

this got to about Bmag25 in about 24 hours with a 10inch scope http://www.astrobin.com/221266/?imag...age=2&nc=&nce=
main galaxies are at about 3 billion light years and the gravitational arc shows light from about 8 billion light years away.

that image shows a combination of 2 fields for Hubble, but we can see a whole lot more of the surrounds, so the two approaches could be complementary. full field at http://www.astrobin.com/full/221268/0/

[rmuhlack (Richard)]

Originally Posted by Shiraz

suggested this a few years ago, but no real interest at that time. http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=95522.
However, count me in if we are looking at a bit of the sky with no cirrus and very few stars - just lots of far off galaxies. If we are to make any sense of the little blobs, seeing-limited resolution will be essential (ie maybe 1arcsec or better sampling would be appropriate).

If we get to 1m equivalent aperture, we could consider doing some actual science stuff - any ideas? Hubble is so narrow field that we we could possibly contribute something useful to complement what they are doing - maybe one of the frontier fields for a starter? https://frontierfields.org/
I already have over 50 hours on Abell370 and Abell2744

As far as I can see, the biggest technical issue will be scattered light. Ultimately, the depth will be determined by how clean the various optics are and it may be difficult to come up with a specification/methodology that will protect data from low-scatter systems and exclude data with lots of scattered light.

YES! I have been looking for a way to combine real science with my astrophotography. A collaborative effort on a galaxy deepfield project would tick a lot of boxes for me. Count me in on any project along these lines

[xelasnave]

Hi Ray
That is most impressive.
Thank you for the links.
I am thinking the future South the better maybe the CSP or very close.
Would an image taken over say twelve months have any advantage?
Alex

[xelasnave]

Really if an exposure is really long even the most uninteresting spot should prove interesting.
How many hours can we stack 100, 200, or more.10000?
What filters?

Alex

[Atmos (Colin)]

Originally Posted by Stonius

Just curious how you'd go about matching the distortions that are unique to each optical system? Would you make a custom distortion map for each one? I figure pictures of stars will be particularly unforgiving in this regard, but what do I know? Maybe you guys eat optical distortions for breakfast!

Markus

Distortions are actually surprisingly easy to correct for, it does require having a distortion free template to begin with but that isn't difficult.

[clive milne]

Originally Posted by Shiraz

suggested this a few years ago, but no real interest at that time. http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=95522.
However, count me in if we are looking at a bit of the sky with no cirrus and very few stars - just lots of far off galaxies. If we are to make any sense of the little blobs, seeing-limited resolution will be essential (ie maybe 1arcsec or better sampling would be appropriate).

Ray, my motivation for suggesting a cirrus survey is to aid in field selection for exactly what you are talking about.

For a collaborative deep field, the more levels of object the better.

You wouldn't be able to tick every box, but some might include:

Nearby, ultra faint dwarf galaxies, and maybe their tidal tails (such as the "little things survey" at Lowell)

Cepheids/nova in local group galaxies.

Tidal streams in interacting galaxy groups.

Supernova searches for fields at cosmologically significant values of Z.

Identification of Kuiper belt objects... or even those at Lagrange points for the outer gas giants.

There would be obvious benefit to tie in professional data sets... like H1 mapping from NRAO, or near infrared from SOFIA, etc)

And there would be some benefit in having a time stamped archive (uploaded to the cloud) for any given field of interest.


The biggest headache would probably be coordination and data reduction.


Anyway... just a few ideas to throw in to the camp fire.

[xelasnave]

Suggestions for a new thread.

First draft which should be down loaded and amended until it can work.

The Iceinspace long exposure multiple participation project.

Starting next,...........members may offer exposures of..........to...........for the purpose of stacking and.........the finished file will be distributed between participants and other interested folk for final proceeding.
Any questions can be directed to.............
Submissions for the next project may be submitted here...............
Ideas as to how this project can be used in scientific endeavor may be submitted here,.................

Alex

[xelasnave]

Is there anyone prepared to project manage?
Alex

[SimmoW (SIMON)]

Im all for a global or national scale project! Combining all the different resolutions would be a cinch eh?!

No matter how many times you do Orion, it always looks different. Never get tired of it.

[Atmos (Colin)]

https://www.astrobin.com/users/MortenBalling/

This is kinda along the same lines of what is being proposed. I guess one of the main differences would be using the raw data as opposed to everyones processed images. The raw data would definitely give the best results in the long run.