This is frightening

[silv (Annette)]

Wow, very long indeed!

And it is not so.
Not since the aftermath of the coup in July.
They who were not killed, imprisoned, fired, expropriated, YET, are scared into utter silence. That's why there is no official resistance, anymore - political or civil.

You can't even talk with your neighbor or cousin without being scared of denunciation(?word?) of being pro-Gülen, false or not.
If you own a property which your neighbor wanted to have for a long time: now is the time to be scared! If he goes to the police and tells them you are a Gülen-ist, you and your family are in real danger.

If it weren't soooo sad it would be really interesting as well.
Erdogan and Hitler are following the same dictator script, that's obvious enough.
But the "West" also faces the same dilemma as in the thirties.
We can not feel comfortable with interfering in the business of a "respected" state and a democratically empowered government.
Today, this is even more difficult with the Turkish closeness to NATO and EU.

And the "small people"? They see what is being done to the Kurds. They see what is done to the teachers of their kids and to the journalists, business people and lawyers and judges. They see that.
And they don't do anything.
Just like the Germans in the thirties.

They want to survive. They want their kids and spouses to survive. And foremost: lead a nice day-to-day life, if possible.

They are in no real position to oppose their government. It's too risky.

The Turkish intelligentsia accuse the EU of letting them down, again. First by not making Turkey a member state in the early 2000s. And now by not intervening and not stopping Erdogan's megalomania.

Just like in the thirties.

[clive milne]

Originally Posted by silv

Erdogan and Hitler are following the same dictator script,

With all due respect, I will correct you there...
Erdogan is actually worse than Hitler was with respect to property rights and political dissent.
Hitler offered Jews (in Germany) the opportunity to relocate to Palestine... all expenses paid, with full compensation for any material or financial assets they held (in Germany)

You can read about it if you google "Haavara Agreement"

This was in response to the (Zionist) Bankster's declaration of war against Germany in 1933 under the (false) guise of militant Judaism (for political/finacial reasons).. Hitler's original sin was to toss the Rothschild's banking cartel out of Germany... The rank and file Jews in Germany (and eastern Europe) were mostly horrified (by the trouble being stirred by the political zionists) and not complicit in this cynical manipulation of public opinion.. (my extended family amongst them)
And let's not forget that Hitler's attitude towards Jews was accommodating to the extent that no less than 150,000 of them served in the Wehrmacht... google: "Hitler's Jewish soldiers"

Erdogan is a fully fledged member of the absolutely EVIL group of utterly depraved psychopaths pulling the strings in the region... up there with Stalin imho)

[silv (Annette)]

okay, I can not agree with your view on Hitler and what jews were offered and actually got.

But my original point was - and here we are on the same side, opinionwise - that Erdogan is a psychopath
- and as such a far more risky player than the old, established asshole-organisations treating the oil region as their sandpit.
It's unpredictable what he might do - and the NATO and the EU are affected by his madness directly.

At least, there's Putin to keep him somewhat in check... Erdogan looks up to him, it seems.
Where the EU has kicked him in the nuts repeatedly, or so he believes and makes his people believe, and therefor gets snubbed by Erdogan, Putin is a new master he can lick...

It's an odd thing, this Turkish self-demeaning and revolting against it. It's a trait which individual Turkish people show often in Germany. And it's a trait that gets nourished within the country by their press and by Erdogan, too.
Odd. Very odd. And risky.

[OICURMT]

Originally Posted by alocky

Interesting perspective. As someone who works for an oil and gas company with interests in that part of the world, and as someone with more than a passing awareness of how the gas trading world operates - especially around the eastern med, I have not seen anything to support this view. Have you got any evidence to support this? Not only that, but I am not aware of any gas discoveries offshore Syria. Again, something I am paid to be aware of.
There are minor onshore reserves around that ares, but gas is only a tiny part of the energy equation in that part of the world. Still - if you've actually got something to support your theory I'd be very interested to see it.
Cheers
Andrew.

Assad signed the agreement in 2012. It was in the PetroleumNew at the time and was considered a potential shift of influence in the region. The project sort of failed due to the Arab Spring. I assume it'll be back on the table once things settle down again.

There was an originally proposed alternative route is direct into Turkey via Iraq but considering the terrain of the Kurdish held north, was considered to expensive an option. The Kirkuk area is still unstable and Dohuk has a lot of problems with Turkey.

It's not about the gasfield in Syria, but transportation of south Arabian peninsula gas into Europe. Qatar and Iran share the world largest gas field (North Dome / South Par), containing 1800Tcf of gas and 50 billion barrels of oil. Qatar can't really build anymore LNG capacity as the world LNG market has shifted into a buyers market. Japan's recent win over contractual acceptance at specific destination has changed the market.

Also, their GtL plant was more expensive than they originally anticipated, so the lower unit cost for transportation in the distances we are talking about would be a pipeline.

Last item: Leviathan was to be Europe's hope for short-mid term gas supply, but Israel looks to be reserving most of the gas, so it's going to be an economically challenged development. If Leviathan were to be developed for Europe, it would take a lot of the pressure off of the current problems around Syria.


OIC!

[AussieTrooper (Ben)]

Originally Posted by Pharian

This threat is nonsense. Trump is in bed with Putin, and Putin wants Trump because he knows how weak Trump will be on the world stage (despite all the rhetoric). Putin isn't stupid enough to start throwing nukes around, no matter what some US media outlets might like us to think.

Well put.

If Trump wins, he will want to get out of this whole situation. He blames the mess on Clinton, and many would say he is right to do so.
Trump is on far better terms with Putin than Clinton is.
The reality is that the only people who are going to wipe out ISIS in Syria is the Assad regime, and the only way they will do that is with support from Russia.
I really wish we would stay out of the middle east. Every time we try to sort the place out, all that happens isone nutbag ends up replacing the last one.
The best course of action is to stay out, and let it stabilise. If that means letting a dictator survive, then so be it.

[Shano592 (Shane)]

Originally Posted by el_draco

Russia has been assaulted by tin pot western dictators repeatedly and they want a barrier between them and the rest of the world...

Well, when Trump gets pasted in the US election, he can always become a consultant for Vlad the Invader. I hear he knows how to get walls built, at the cost of his neighbours...