It steams my clams when someone complains about Bintel's prices

[astroron (Ron)]

Originally Posted by MattT

Is this thread about why prices are high in Oz or an ad for Sirius Optics?



Matt

No one here has mentioned the company you named.
The person who is defending the Australian Astro shops
Is doing it in a fair and reasonable way, not mentioning
Any business they are associated with.
Cheers

[Kunama]

Originally Posted by astroron

No one here has mentioned the company you named.
The person who is defending the Australian Astro shops
Is doing it in a fair and reasonable way, not mentioning
Any business they are associated with.
Cheers

You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to work it out though

But I do agree that it is important to support local companies, I feel I have done my part in keeping AEC-Takahashi and MyAstroShop going

[MortonH]

I think society in general no longer sees the value of buying locally when that means a higher price. We just look at the bottom line, go with the cheapest option and cross our fingers that we won't have a problem (if we even consider it at all).

It would be interesting to have a thread about equipment issues people have had and how they were resolved (or not). The current thread on the Skywatcher dud is a good example.

[Nikolas (Nik)]

Originally Posted by MortonH

I think society in general no longer sees the value of buying locally when that means a higher price. We just look at the bottom line,

Actually because consumers are better informed about how we have been royally ripped off by the middle men is why they are pursuing other more cost effective options, it's up to the retailers to do their bit and point out the rorting and gouging, in a vocal and public way. Time for the retailers to unionise so to speak

It would be interesting to have a thread about equipment issues people have had and how they were resolved (or not). The current thread on the Skywatcher dud is a good example.

I don't think there are a huge amount of people with problems, there may be some but you'll find the majority of the consumers are happy with their purchases, it's only when something goes wrong you hear about it

[N1 (Mirko)]

I'm willing to accept a certain premium if it means supporting vendors closer to home, provided they offer a good level of service. Those who don't I couldn't care less about, even if they were based inside my letter box (provided they pay their rent on time ).

Having said that, your "supporting local astronomy" dollar will go a heck of a lot further if you support a local astronomy club that engages in outreach work and makes astronomy (as a hobby or otherwise) accessible to those who see the local vs overseas debate as positively irrelevant because they can't afford either.

[astroron (Ron)]

Originally Posted by Kunama

You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to work it out though

But I do agree that it is important to support local companies, I feel I have done my part in keeping AEC-Takahashi and MyAstroShop going

As I said the poster has not mentioned any name of any company she is associated with.
Not everyone would be aware of her affiliation.?
What is she supposed to do?
I for one do not think she was promoting her company, she was telling it as she sees it.
That you deduced what company she is with is up to you.
As I repeat No company was named.
Cheers
PS
Bintel and My Astro shop have got just about all of my astro shopping in the
last 5 years.

[kittenshark (Cheryl-Ann Tan)]

Originally Posted by N1

I'm willing to accept a certain premium if it means supporting vendors closer to home, provided they offer a good level of service. Those who don't I couldn't care less about, even if they were based inside my letter box (provided they pay their rent on time ).

Having said that, your "supporting local astronomy" dollar will go a heck of a lot further if you support a local astronomy club that engages in outreach work and makes astronomy (as a hobby or otherwise) accessible to those who see the local vs overseas debate as positively irrelevant because they can't afford either.

As a matter of fact, I handle the equipment rentals for Brisbane Astronomical Society. I've wanted to step down from the role ages ago since I started running the shop but it's a job nobody wants.

For $20 a month you get to rent scope setups that you normally pay thousands and dollars for. It's not something everyone can afford. I know because I was in that position a few years ago. For customers who can't afford it but are dead keen on trying something like an AZ-EQ6, I encourage them to rent first, learn how to use it, and decide before buying to avoid buyer's remorse. Fun fact: I actually never bought a telescope for myself before buying the store because I always had the club scopes with me.

I would love to move away from the storefront and do online-only, but a lot of folks just want to have a physical brick and mortar store to go to and chat to someone. If we go online-only, we are competing internationally and that's really difficult and risky. I'm looking to do something in-between, which is a warehouse in an industrial zone. If it comes to it, we might even have to move out of the country to run the business offshore. But then, without a shopfront, we can't do fun things like bringing in a 20" scope and showing it off, or to have your saturday morning teas in the shop with our longtime customers. Or hold workshops. Or to just let people wander in and enjoy browsing.

The fact that Bintel had to close their Melbourne storefront is sad, and it inconveniences many people. I saw it as a sign that people just don't support their LAS enough. But that said, the economy and business environment changes, and if you don't change you're dead. I've closed a number of stocklines because they're too specialised and it's better for the customer to just import direct and we tell them where to buy. However... if you expect us to keep a storefront open, and demand that we match online-only overseas prices, it's not realistic, and it's annoying.

You see all these "buy Australian" campaigns in many industries... the same applies to LASs.

[dreamstation (James)]

I'd prefer to support local businesses as much as the next Australian but when local prices (no matter how justified) are so much more expensive than overseas it's hard to justify the difference. Belts have been tightened in recent years and we've had to adapt. Supporting locals is a two way street and the blame should not be put entirely on the consumer.

A recent example for me was buying a flashlight from Amazon US because it was 50% cheaper including shipping to my door (they had a sale) than buying it locally from the authorised Australian dealer that I bought the last one from. One can not justify that much extra for the same product.

Another example of how Australians are being gouged is the video game market. Not sure how many of you here are familiar with that scene but there's a massive digital distribution platform called Steam which has millions of users worldwide. They charge Australians on the Australian store of said platform in USD (the ACCC has taken Valve, the people who run this platform, to court for other reasons and this has delayed the implementation of AUD currency for our store).

Prices on the Australian store are sometimes up to 40-50% more expensive than the US store which is also in USD (obviously.) There is no shipping of contents, all of the content is delivered digitally so the increase in price is nothing more than what we love to call 'The Australian Tax'.

[kittenshark (Cheryl-Ann Tan)]

Originally Posted by Nikolas

Actually because consumers are better informed about how we have been royally ripped off by the middle men is why they are pursuing other more cost effective options, it's up to the retailers to do their bit and point out the rorting and gouging, in a vocal and public way. Time for the retailers to unionise so to speak

I don't think there are a huge amount of people with problems, there may be some but you'll find the majority of the consumers are happy with their purchases, it's only when something goes wrong you hear about it

Well, we did vote with our wallet by not buying from certain suppliers if they overcharge us too much. We told them but if they've got department and toy stores in their pocket, they're not likely to listen to specialist shops.

Even if one customer is having problems, it's one customer too many. The pervious owner might not have cared especially towards the last few years, but that's not how we roll.

[Camelopardalis (Dunk)]

Not sure why anyone would be bothered about a retailer posting a topic, it presents an interesting insight / day in the life

I, for one, can't fathom those who look at a price overseas, can't master basic currency conversion or international shipping costs, and then expect local stores to match it.

In astro, Australia doesn't have the economy of scale. Having come from the UK which (despite the weather!) has a bigger astro market with a population of 65 million, all of the astro dealers I can think of are all pretty much single-shop small set-ups. But in this day of Amazon, where on that small isle items can be delivered same-day to some areas, there are unrealistic expectations placed on any small business.

There's no way I'd buy a telescope from overseas unless could afford to lose the $$$ involved...

[N1 (Mirko)]

Originally Posted by kittenshark

As a matter of fact, I handle the equipment rentals for Brisbane Astronomical Society. I've wanted to step down from the role ages ago since I started running the shop but it's a job nobody wants.

For $20 a month you get to rent scope setups that you normally pay thousands and dollars for. It's not something everyone can afford. I know because I was in that position a few years ago. For customers who can't afford it but are dead keen on trying something like an AZ-EQ6, I encourage them to rent first, learn how to use it, and decide before buying to avoid buyer's remorse. Fun fact: I actually never bought a telescope for myself before buying the store because I always had the club scopes with me.

I would love to move away from the storefront and do online-only, but a lot of folks just want to have a physical brick and mortar store to go to and chat to someone. If we go online-only, we are competing internationally and that's really difficult and risky. I'm looking to do something in-between, which is a warehouse in an industrial zone. If it comes to it, we might even have to move out of the country to run the business offshore. But then, without a shopfront, we can't do fun things like bringing in a 20" scope and showing it off, or to have your saturday morning teas in the shop with our longtime customers. Or hold workshops. Or to just let people wander in and enjoy browsing.

The fact that Bintel had to close their Melbourne storefront is sad, and it inconveniences many people. I saw it as a sign that people just don't support their LAS enough. But that said, the economy and business environment changes, and if you don't change you're dead. I've closed a number of stocklines because they're too specialised and it's better for the customer to just import direct and we tell them where to buy. However... if you expect us to keep a storefront open, and demand that we match online-only overseas prices, it's not realistic, and it's annoying.

You see all these "buy Australian" campaigns in many industries... the same applies to LASs.

I don't know the numbers, but to me as a "layperson" it would seem prudent to explore where there might be some option of affiliating with an astro society beyond what you describe and still have a retail business. The society could provide much of that consultation, rentals etc, and send whoever wants their own gear your way. Not sure whether this model could result in FTE employment for yourself or others though.

I thought most of those campaigns are more like "buy Australian made", are they not?

[Stonius (Markus)]

Originally Posted by Camelopardalis

Not sure why anyone would be bothered about a retailer posting a topic, it presents an interesting insight / day in the life

I, for one, can't fathom those who look at a price overseas, can't master basic currency conversion or international shipping costs, and then expect local stores to match it.

When you factor in the exchange rate and shipping, typically the modest saving is not worth the risk. If there's anything wrong you will need to ship it back, typically at your own expense. Not to mention the additional time and heartache, and lack of someone you can actually call for advice/support. I still use Bintel even though they're not in Melbourne anymore because they give good advice and have the gear I want. Not to say I wouldn't go elsewhere for other bits and pieces they don't carry, but just saying good service goes a long way when you are trying to integrate new purchases into an existing system.

Markus

[Camelopardalis (Dunk)]

Which was kind of my point

The exchange rate isn't THAT good (although it's better right now than it has been for a good while, don't expect it to last!), and international shipping is usually far from cheap. Then you have to factor in GST when it arrives...

[kittenshark (Cheryl-Ann Tan)]

Originally Posted by N1

I don't know the numbers, but to me as a "layperson" it would seem prudent to explore where there might be some option of affiliating with an astro society beyond what you describe and still have a retail business. The society could provide much of that consultation, rentals etc, and send whoever wants their own gear your way. Not sure whether this model could result in FTE employment for yourself or others though.

I thought most of those campaigns are more like "buy Australian made", are they not?

At first I thought so, but the numbers just don't tip in your favour. The audiences that clubs have is no where near the reach you get from advertising. I'm doing the club things mostly because I care about the club and they've helped me grow as an astronomer so it's my chance to give back. We send our customers to clubs so that they can get more experience and hands-on instruction on how to use their equipment at dark skies.

There are campaigns to shop local business; there's a sticker on our door to encourage people to shop local small businesses. I try to do so myself when I can afford it.

[kittenshark (Cheryl-Ann Tan)]

Originally Posted by Camelopardalis

Which was kind of my point

The exchange rate isn't THAT good (although it's better right now than it has been for a good while, don't expect it to last!), and international shipping is usually far from cheap. Then you have to factor in GST when it arrives...

That was my original point.

Just be careful with calculating all these if you want to import yourselves! Some people just don't know how to do their sums correctly. If you use currency conversion calculators' exchange rate, bare in mind that is is the "mid-market" rate, and your bank or paypal will have a different rate, which you won't see the actual cost until it shows up on your bank statement.

Don't forget you're not only buying and paying for a product, you're paying for a service and for the support, and for them to keep a physical storefront open (sometimes). Do you really want to deal with the joys of AusPost if you can help it? When something comes in from overseas, guess who delivers it unless it's a big courier company like fedex or DHL (which is expensive)?

[Peter Ward]

I have found some of Bintel's pricing to actually be cheaper that that in the USA. Case in point, I took a drive down to OPT and bought a TeveVue barlow.

The currency conversion on my Mastercard, plus Californian state tax made it more expensive than the local price!

Many local businesses are also asked to support local Astro-community events...which my business has done over the years.

That said, I was crest-fallen after donating a not inexpensive autoguider for a well known event. We never found out who won it etc. or a thank you from the winner.

Suffice to say, we were not sponsors the following year.

[kittenshark (Cheryl-Ann Tan)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

I have found some of Bintel's pricing to actually be cheaper that that in the USA. Case in point, I took a drive down to OPT and bought a TeveVue barlow.

The currency conversion on my Mastercard, plus Californian state tax made it more expensive than the local price!

Many local businesses are also asked to support local Astro-community events...which my business has done over the years.

That said, I was crest-fallen after donating a not inexpensive autoguider for a well known event. We never found out who won it etc. or a thank you from the winner.

Suffice to say, we were not sponsors the following year.

Peter--I think I know who won it. Actually I think I have it as part of the club equipment and it's in my living room in a box! If we're talking about the same event, suffice to say, we got very poor treatment as well and we're not sponsoring ever again. When we raised a stink after suspecting that the value of the items donated far exceeded the money raised from the event, asked them to to tell us how much money they managed to raise, they rudely said none of your business, laughed at us and said if we told other sponsors about our experience, "the other sponsors are gonna laugh at you!" quote-unquote. If it was indeed your guider, I'll make sure you'll get a thank-you from the club who won it. (PM me)

Well I have spoken and they're not laughing. They're appalled. I really know how that feels, Peter. (And that steams my clams even more than the strange customer.)

Our main duty as retailers to the local astro community is to provide good service and the best (realistic) price for astro stuff. We can't do that if we pour money into sponsorship that doesn't have a flow-on effect. Most clubs are understanding but some are just demanding and have a sense of entitlement.

update...
Speak of the devil... the guy that I was talking about (presumably) and came to buy a number of things from us just now including said Telrad. Had to explain our reason behind our pricing again, but I think after seeing the shop in person he was impressed at the range of stuff we had on display and that he could grab all the things he needed in one spot.

[dreamstation (James)]

Originally Posted by Camelopardalis

I, for one, can't fathom those who look at a price overseas, can't master basic currency conversion or international shipping costs, and then expect local stores to match it.

I think you'll find a lot of the internet/overseas shoppers are more savvy than you give them credit for. You have the odd one slip through like the one described in the original post but with the internet and online shopping as accessible as it is today, it's quite easy for people to find out and know what is and is not a good deal. There are websites specifically designed to help shoppers get great deals locally and international, namely https://www.ozbargain.com.au which has saved me a small fortune.

The flashlight I mentioned in my previous post which was 50% cheaper from Amazon US than the local authorised dealer INCLUDED international shipping and currency conversion fees from my bank. That just goes to show how cheap the actual product was given how much more international shipping costs. Those kinds of savings can't be ignored.

Back when our dollar was at parity with the USD, I had bought tyres from the US which were pretty bloody expensive to get shipped over here, but in the end they saved me $150 PER TYRE than if I had bought them locally, even with the expensive shipping.

Yes, this thread is about Astronomy gear but the same principle applies everywhere.

[VPAstro (Andrew and Cam)]

I was in LA just before Christmas, and went to a telescope and camera store. It was a pretty small shop, but they also run a big online store. I could not believe the prices. I wish I had more money to spend. I did however pick up an Orion ST80 with dovetail bar and rings for $109.00 usd. This was not a sale price, but the usual price. Even when converted to aud, it was still 50% cheaper than in Australia. I was impressed..

[raymo]

That's not so amazing, I got my SW ST80 with finder, 10 and 25 EPs, tube
rings, and AZ3 tripod for AU$199. from BTOW in Perth.
raymo