Site 12km from "Wiruna" on Federal Govt nuclear dump short list

[xelasnave]

Wavytone

Thanks for the suggestion with the dictionary in return may I guide you via this link.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

[rally]

I agree with DJDD

Its not our waste - We supplied perfectly refined Uranium 235 and they used it for their benefit and after their use converted it into nuclear waste !!
So they created the waste, and they should have considered and provisioned how they would deal with that waste when they bought it.

So I can't see any moral obligation arising from it.

[Kunama]

With so much arid land in the country which is isolated from populations and food producing areas, and not connected to the major waterways and catchment areas, they suggest building this wonderful facility near Wiruna, probably because some landholder has seen this as a way to make a quick dollar (read here 4 to 5 times the actual current value of their land).............

One would think it would be obvious that such a venture should be kept away from any area which drains its water into larger waterways. Sally's Flat water runs into the Macquarie River, to Lake Burrendong which is a recreation area.

Wavy, You haven't actually stated whether you agree with the siting at Sally's Flat or not and you haven't given any reasons for or against ..... perhaps they could site the 'Dump' at Killara and save transport costs .....

[andyc (Andy)]

Can't see this would affect astronomers in the slightest. And would be trivial compared to the dirty coal mines and power stations with radioactive (and other pollutants like mercury etc) fly ash in the area. From an astronomical view, completely unimportant though.

[gary]

Originally Posted by andyc

Can't see this would affect astronomers in the slightest. And would be trivial compared to the dirty coal mines and power stations with radioactive (and other pollutants like mercury etc) fly ash in the area. From an astronomical view, completely unimportant though.

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the post.

Thanks also to Steffen who enunciated the primary concern, which I would
have thought to be self evident but were mistaken, that such a facility,
by definition, would be made to be very secure and that floodlighting is
usually part and parcel of that.

So the news is as welcome as that of, say, news of plans for a night
time golf range or twenty-four hour open cut coal mine.

The Astronomical Society of New South Wales (ASNSW) owns the 107
acre property at Ilford and it is rare for an astronomy club anywhere
in the world to have possession of such an asset.

Considerable time, most of it voluntary, and money has been invested
in the property over the years and it has brought great enjoyment to
thousands of people who come for its primary asset of dark skies.

However, as visitors to Wiruna often note, over the past decades the
night skies there have been deteriorating with the increasing light
pollution, particularly in the direction toward Sydney.

Any additional sources of light pollution, particularly from a source so
close, would be disappointing to say the least and at those distances,
anecdotally, it is likely to be visible.

It is a double-edged sword. On the one had, if such a facility were built
nearby, observers would hope that its light pollution footprint would
be small. On the other hand, right-minded folk would hope that the facility
exercised best practice security. There are no shortage of people in the
world who would dearly love to get their hands on even small amounts
of low-grade nuclear waste. So if the facility was not engineered
with security floodlighting and the threat of lethal force, which seem
reasonable measures, most of us would be asking why not.

As I understand it, currently South Australian state law makes it illegal
to build or operate a nuclear waste storage facility. It might be one of the
reasons less remote locations are being considered.

Best Regards

Gary Kopff
Mt Kuring-Gai

[KenGee (Kenith Gee)]

All the other areas are in food producing areas as well so i'm not sure there is a point there.
The things to consider are....
We need to store it somewhere
We need to transport it to the place where it is stored.
We need a place where the locals will tolerate it.

As one poster has already said we have a lot of not in my back yarders.
We also have a lot of people who a happy to take the benefits of nuke medical, and scientific devices and what not what. But think the waste is someone else's problem.

I personally think each state should have it own waste storage area and deal with the products they use themselves.

[speach (Simon)]

Now there are 1000's of kms^2 out there, what's the problem with using a few for storing nuclear waste.
In fact we could store it for other countries too. Of course we would require a fee for doing this.
If you think about it we could mine the UO2 (pitchblende) process it into fuel rods, lease the rods to the end user, except them back for storage or reprocessing, at a fee.
This way we would have complete control of the U from digging up to final disposal, and make money at each stage, can't think of a better business plan.

[xelasnave]

Simon that sounds a good idea.
Who owns our U anyway we may have to lease it from them.

[xelasnave]

*Australia's uranium**reserves are the world's largest, with 23% of the total. Production ... Ranger is**owned**by Energy Resources of Australia Ltd (ERA), a 68.39% subsidiary of Rio Tinto.

So if I buy Rio Tinto shares I get to own a bit.

[xelasnave]

*Rio Tinto Coal**Australia is one of Australia's leading mining organisations so maybe a good each way bet.

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Well I couldn't find an exact proposed location for the proposed facility anywhere, the potential location is identified only as "Sallys' Flat NSW" which according to Google Earth is marked at a position about 20km from Wiruna and to its west..? The terrain in that area is 100-200m lower altitude than Wiruna too so without knowing the exact location of the proposed site it is hard to predict the effect, if any, a heavily floodlit facility like this might have on the dark skies of Wiruna? My feeling is that at 20km to the west and a likely lower altitude, it would be negligible... and certainly less damaging than if the neighbours at Wiruna turned on a few lights and left their curtains open..?

Anyone know the exact proposed location of the nuke dump?

Mike

[Larryp (Laurie)]

I remember many years ago when I was secretary of Sutherland Astro Soc., there was an opportunity given to register designated observatory sites, with a view to protection from future light pollution. I can't remember the exact details now, but
if the Wiruna site was registered, it may force consideration of any light intrusion.

[gary]

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

Anyone know the exact proposed location of the nuke dump?

Mike

G'day Mike,

Did some searches and according to http://www.radioactivewaste.gov.au
it's at 149.5235E 33.0199S.

Google map here -

https://www.google.com.au/maps/place...!3m1!1s0x0:0x0

According to the http://www.radioactivewaste.gov.au web site all sites proposed were
volunteered during a proposal period.

The incentive for the landowner is that they are to be compensated
at four times the market value of their land.

Interestingly the government web site gets all the co-ordinates jumbled
up.

I discovered that for the page for Sally's Flat they have the co-ordinates
for Oman Ama in Qld and vice-versa.

http://www.radioactivewaste.gov.au/p...es/sallys-flat
http://www.radioactivewaste.gov.au/p...sites/oman-ama

The facility might look something like this -
http://www.radioactivewaste.gov.au/s...radimage3a.jpg

Best regards

Gary

[lazjen (Chris)]

I have no problems with a waste site somewhere in Australia, particularly for our own waste. We need the nuclear material for medicine, etc, so we need to deal with the waste.

However, for other countries, I think we should also provide a service to store their waste, but I would make it cost them a lot, have ongoing fees and explicit, strict shipping conditions (safety and security to OUR standards). And by costing a lot, I would mean that it would cover any costs we would need (labour, materials, transport, security, on going testing, maintenance, etc) and well beyond (I consider it should become a profitable revenue source for the country).

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by gary

G'day Mike,

Did some searches and according to http://www.radioactivewaste.gov.au
it's at 149.5235E 33.0199S.

Google map here -

https://www.google.com.au/maps/place...!3m1!1s0x0:0x0

According to the http://www.radioactivewaste.gov.au web site all sites proposed were
volunteered during a proposal period.

The incentive for the landowner is that they are to be compensated
at four times the market value of their land.

Interestingly the government web site gets all the co-ordinates jumbled
up.

I discovered that for the page for Sally's Flat they have the co-ordinates
for Oman Ama in Qld and vice-versa.

http://www.radioactivewaste.gov.au/p...es/sallys-flat
http://www.radioactivewaste.gov.au/p...sites/oman-ama

The facility might look something like this -
http://www.radioactivewaste.gov.au/s...radimage3a.jpg

Best regards

Gary

Couldn't make hide nor hair of those coordinates either..?? But if that google map location you link to is correct it would put it at over 20km's away and an hour by road, so I would think any bright waste dump lighting will not be noticable from Wiruna?

Mike

[gary]

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

Couldn't make hide nor hair of those coordinates either..?? But if that google map location you link to is correct it would put it at over 20km's away and an hour by road, so I would think any bright waste dump lighting will not be noticable from Wiruna?

Mike

Hi Mike,

Hopefully so.

There is now a period where the public is invited to provide feedback
so this provides an opportunity to request light pollution mitigation.

Given the Government process whereby anyone could nominate their
own land in return for premium compensation, it could have been worse
for the Society, or anyone living in a rural area for that matter, if a
neighbour had volunteered theirs.

It certainly would be a slick move if you wanted to sell out and didn't get
along with your neighbours. Nominate your land, pick up four times the
market value and a thank you handshake courtesy of the Government,
retire to a yacht on the Whitsundays and stick it to the neighbours as well
by leaving them will severely devalued properties next to a nuclear
waste dump.

Over the years I've noticed the ever increasing impact of the lights from the
open cut coal mines in the lower Hunter some 45km to the north
from where we observe from near Bucketty.

Best regards

Gary

[gary]

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

But if that google map location you link to is correct it would put it at over 20km's away and an hour by road ...

Hi Mike,

I concur with your distance estimate.

From up at the house to the co-ordinates found on the government
web site I make it to be 23.3km.

A lot better than only 12km.

Best Regards

Gary