Barlow or new eyepiece?

[OzStarGazer]

By the way, Billi, this is what an established eBay seller (Skies Unlimited in the UK) told me last year about eyepieces for our scope in the early days (I had had my SW for about 6 weeks back then):

Series 500 are a very good general purpose Plossl and are perfectly fine for many astronomers in the early years of learning about the subject. The ones that we sell as 50 degree Plossls are the next ones up the scale as they let you see more of the surroundings of a target which helps make them easier to find as well as putting them into context of the surroundings. They give the same magnification per mm of focal length as the Series 500 but say you were looking at a crater on the moon then you would see more around it - hence the context benefit.

If you are feeling brave you might consider the next rung up the ladder of eyepieces and look at the TMB Planetary 2s or the BST Starguider EDs as they will give you more benefits in terms of contrast, brightness, sharpness and field of view. Our 8mm is the most popular eyepiece that we sell and you can Barlow it to 4mm when conditions allow - but once you have tried it in a Barlow you will be very tempted to buy the 5mm one!

Alan is a very honest person (as you can see he didn't even try to sell the most expensive eps and sounded encouraging throughout) and I bought quite a few items from him (including the Starguider).

[brian nordstrom (As avatar)]

Very , very good advice John , it just takes years to collect a good set of eyepieces , if you don't win lotto ..
Over many years I have owned and used many different eyepieces and now almost exclusively use my full set of Radians ( all got 2nd hand over years off the IIS classifieds ) , 19 , 22 , 24 and 27mm Panoptics , along with the before mentioned 2x Ultima and 2x PM is all I ever need , love this gear , it's great in all my scopes for all types of observing .

Brian.

Originally Posted by ausastronomer

Hi Billi,

I am going to come at this from a different angle to where everyone else pointed you (Brian did at least suggest not to waste your money on a poor quality barlow). The scope you have is a very good entry level scope and should last at least 1 year and possibly 2 or 3 years. These have a parabolic primary mirror and assuming fault free optics should be capable of running to a bit over 200X on the moon and planets, which you would achieve with a 3mm eyepiece. Seeing conditions on a large number of nights might prevent you going this high.

What I have learned over many years is that people often upsize, downsize or change telescopes but they will generally keep good quality eyepieces for a very long time and use the same eyepieces, in different scopes, as they change scopes. Consequently, I think you should head away from the budget end of the market as those eyepieces and barlows will only ever be that. At some time in the not too distant future, as your observing skills improve, you will realise that the eyepieces that came with the scope are pretty ordinary and you will look to upgrade them. Buying more cheap eyepieces and accessories IMO is only burning money as you will at some time in the future give them to someone because no one will buy them when you want to upgrade. I think you should start to assemble some better quality eyepieces now, which you will keep for many years. If you don''t keep them for years you can at least sell them and get your money back on them. Whilst not everyone can afford to go and buy a new set of Pentax XW's, Ethoses or Deloses, there are some excellent high quality eyepieces which can be bought very reasonably on the second hand market. I think this is where you should start looking. Be patient, they may not come up this week or next week, but they do come up and you can start to build a good set of high quality eyepieces over a period of time. Most importantly you will be able to sell these for about what you paid for them.

I think you need to get something in the 5mm to 8mm range as your next eyepiece to give you a bit more power on Solar System targets. I would look for something like a 2nd hand 5mm, 6mm or 8mm Televue Radian, or a 5mm or 8mm Vixen LVW, or a Pentax XF 8.5mm. You can often buy these for somewhere between $130 and $200. If you upgrade your scope in the future; and as your observing skills improve, you will realise that these eyepieces at least allow the scope to deliver its best performance and it is not handicapped by mediocre quality eyepieces.

Whilst $150 to $200 may sound like too much money at the moment, you would always be able to get most of your money back in the future if you ever want to sell them. if you keep buying $50 eyepieces you will have an eyepiece collection worth $0 because they are basically not saleable on the second hand market.

Cheers,
John B

[OzStarGazer]

I have just bought a Radian myself. Why not? Oh well, it is always cloudy, but I can use it later. If I like it I will buy more.

[BilliGoatsGruff (Billi)]

Originally Posted by ausastronomer

Hi Billi,

What I have learned over many years is that people often upsize, downsize or change telescopes but they will generally keep good quality eyepieces for a very long time and use the same eyepieces, in different scopes, as they change scopes.

I think you need to get something in the 5mm to 8mm range as your next eyepiece to give you a bit more power on Solar System targets. I would look for something like a 2nd hand 5mm, 6mm or 8mm Televue Radian, or a 5mm or 8mm Vixen LVW, or a Pentax XF 8.5mm. You can often buy these for somewhere between $130 and $200. If you upgrade your scope in the future; and as your observing skills improve, you will realise that these eyepieces at least allow the scope to deliver its best performance and it is not handicapped by mediocre quality eyepieces.

Whilst $150 to $200 may sound like too much money at the moment, you would always be able to get most of your money back in the future if you ever want to sell them. if you keep buying $50 eyepieces you will have an eyepiece collection worth $0 because they are basically not saleable on the second hand market.

Cheers,
John B

You've definitely raised some good points. I'm not overly worried about reselling in the future because I can keep the cheaper eyepieces for my girls. I figure if I get a cheaper 6mm now then I can upgrade to a better quality one when I can afford it at least that way I'll know if I like what I'm using.
I'm only a baby when it comes to astronomy so that means taking baby steps. I'd feel awful if I spent $100 on an eyepiece that I won't use.

[BilliGoatsGruff (Billi)]

Originally Posted by OzStarGazer

Maybe AstralTraveller was right in the other thread she started and she should wait to buy any new eps altogether for the time being. After all she just got into astronomy.

This is also true. Maybe I'm just being greedy and impatient?

[brian nordstrom (As avatar)]

You will be impressed !!! good onya . this is where my TV fetish started , an 8mm Radian got from here ,, enjoy .

Brian.

Originally Posted by OzStarGazer

I have just bought a Radian myself. Why not? Oh well, it is always cloudy, but I can use it later. If I like it I will buy more.

[dannat (Daniel)]

i have seen the 10mm which comes with those scopes & it isnt great [the 25 is very usbale], a GSO plossl will be much beter, below 15mm in plossl config the viewing becomes uncomfortable as the eye relief is tight & you need to get your eyeball very close to the eye lens.
for solar system targets you should be able to support a 5mm eyepiece, giving 130x magnification. for your scope the BST explorer eyepieces are good quality, they are not to televue standards - but are close to 90% of the edge views of something like a radian. they can be had from telescopes-astronomy
which conveniently for you is located in SA, they are around the $80 mark. if you want to check reviews google AT paradigm [in US they are badged diff.]

[BilliGoatsGruff (Billi)]

Originally Posted by dannat

i have seen the 10mm which comes with those scopes & it isnt great [the 25 is very usbale], a GSO plossl will be much beter, below 15mm in plossl config the viewing becomes uncomfortable as the eye relief is tight & you need to get your eyeball very close to the eye lens.
for solar system targets you should be able to support a 5mm eyepiece, giving 130x magnification. for your scope the BST explorer eyepieces are good quality, they are not to televue standards - but are close to 90% of the edge views of something like a radian. they can be had from telescopes-astronomy
which conveniently for you is located in SA, they are around the $80 mark. if you want to check reviews google AT paradigm [in US they are badged diff.]

Hi Daniel.

I had a look on that website, but it's really hard to navigate. Where did you find the cost for the BST eyepieces?
I find that the 10mm is a little bit difficult to focus with. I'm not sure if it's a standard thing, but one teeny tiny bump of the scope and it gets a little fuzzy.

[BilliGoatsGruff (Billi)]

I was considering the 10mm Orion highlight mentioned in this post:

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...d.php?t=134697

It would surely have to be a step up from the one I have?

Or there are these:

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...d.php?t=133827

To be honest I'm not really sure what to look for.

[MortonH]

Originally Posted by BilliGoatsGruff

Hi Daniel.

I had a look on that website, but it's really hard to navigate. Where did you find the cost for the BST eyepieces?
I find that the 10mm is a little bit difficult to focus with. I'm not sure if it's a standard thing, but one teeny tiny bump of the scope and it gets a little fuzzy.

The website isn't great. Best to call them or email them. Matthew Lovell (the owner) is very good to deal with.

I bought a 12mm BST Explorer from them last year. It was $85 plus $10 postage. They have 8mm, 12mm, 15mm and 25mm.


Sold it earlier this year because I had other eyepieces in the same focal length. Here's my ad from the time:

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...light=12mm+bst

[BilliGoatsGruff (Billi)]

Originally Posted by MortonH

The website isn't great. Best to call them or email them. Matthew Lovell (the owner) is very good to deal with.

I bought a 12mm BST Explorer from them last year. It was $85 plus $10 postage. They have 8mm, 12mm, 15mm and 25mm.


Sold it earlier this year because I had other eyepieces in the same focal length. Here's my ad from the time:

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...light=12mm+bst

It would be good if the website was more user friendly I like to be able to see what I'm buying. I found a 6mm Orion Expanse on Bintel for $95, plus $10 postage, so it's not much difference cost-wise from the BST. Of course, they are all a bit higher than I was hoping to spend, buuut my birthday isn't far away so maybe I could convince a family member to help me out

[OzStarGazer]

Originally Posted by BilliGoatsGruff

Maybe I'm just being greedy and impatient?

It is normal to show some interest in upgrading, but you can certainly wait at least a couple of months. Maybe you can also try out different eps in an astronomy club, so you can see the difference with your own eyes.
If you are not sure yet what you want (considering there are many opinions) I wouldn't rush.
Also, keep an eye on second-hand eyepieces in the IIS classifieds, just in case there is a bargain. Be quick if you see a bargain. The sales here are not auctions, so it is mostly first come first served.
PS: Oh, I have just read that it is almost your birthday. Good opportunity for a family member to pay for you!

[Renato1 (Renato)]

The 130p is a 5.1" diameter telescope and has 650mm focal length and an f/5 focal ratio.

So 10mm eyepiece gives you 65X and a 2mm exit pupil, which is the ideal eyepiece for looking at faint Deep Sky objects, but too low a power for planets.

With a properly collimated telescope and good seeing conditions, I expect the telescope should be able to hold 250X on some nights of the year - which translates to a 2.6mm eyepiece (i.e. a 5mm eyepiece in a 2X barlow, or a 6.5mm eyepiece in a 2.5X Barlow, 8mm eyepiece in a 3X Barlow).

But for most nights, I'd expect around 200X would be better, which translates to a 3.25mm eyepiece (i.e. a 6.5mm eyepiece in a 2X Barlow, or an 8mm eyepiece in 2.5X Barlow or a 10mm eyepiece in a 3X Barlow).
If you go for the lower power option, remember that you can increase magnification by around 10% by keep the eyepiece further out of the Barlow, rather than pushing it all the way in.

I don't know how good your eyepieces are - often the ones that come with telescopes may be mediocre.

My suggestion is to just be patient, and wait for either a very good eyepiece or a good Barlow that meets the parameters above, to show up in the classifieds.
Regards,
Renato

[BilliGoatsGruff (Billi)]

Originally Posted by OzStarGazer

It is normal to show some interest in upgrading, but you can certainly wait at least a couple of months. Maybe you can also try out different eps in an astronomy club, so you can see the difference with your own eyes.
If you are not sure yet what you want (considering there are many opinions) I wouldn't rush.
Also, keep an eye on second-hand eyepieces in the IIS classifieds, just in case there is a bargain. Be quick if you see a bargain. The sales here are not auctions, so it is mostly first come first served.
PS: Oh, I have just read that it is almost your birthday. Good opportunity for a family member to pay for you!

Fingers crossed out local group will be having a meet up on Saturday (weather permitting) so if they do I'll tag along to that It would be good to catch up with people who know what they're talking about haha.

Dad's getting me The Backyard Astronomer's Guide, so maybe my mum could get the eyepiece

Of course, all good things come in time

[BilliGoatsGruff (Billi)]

Renato, I'm not looking for anything lower than a 6mm right now. I've got my eyes glued to the classifieds for anything that comes up in my price range

[OzStarGazer]

You can also keep an eye on the Cloudy Nights classifieds, but postage might be expensive if the seller is not in Australia...

[inertia8 (Australia)]

Regarding the Orion Expanse, check out the reviews, from what I've seen the BST Starguider ED referred above would be a cut above for the same sort of price.

As suggested, hold off as long as you can! This weekend, weather permitting, should see the moon as just a sliver and you'll be able to use the 25mm to just scan across the sky.

I'd also suggest a Planisphere if you don't have one already and a small torch with a good number of cellophane layers across the front.

With regards to the fuzziness when touching the scope, this is unfortunately one of the quirks to these small scopes, the smallest vibration from touching it the eyepiece, or the table upon which it is sat, will induce a shake/wobble to the image that is more noticeable as you switch to higher power/short focal length eyepieces, so it is important to be able to sit comfortable and learn to sit very still, often focusing on an object, then moving it just out of the edge of the field of view and patiently wait for it to cross the field without touching the scope. It is something that you learn very quick with each passing observation session.

[OzStarGazer]

I like the BST Starguider I have. It is great quality for a reasonable price. It doesn't have a rubber eyecup you can flip up though (I don't know if this is what it is called).

[OzStarGazer]

Originally Posted by inertia8

With regards to the fuzziness when touching the scope, this is unfortunately one of the quirks to these small scopes, the smallest vibration from touching it the eyepiece, or the table upon which it is sat, will induce a shake/wobble to the image that is more noticeable as you switch to higher power/short focal length eyepieces

Yes, collapsible is great, but there are obviously also some disadvantages in terms of stability, for example when you change the ep. Also always make sure the ep is firm in the focusser and that you have turned/tightened the screws enough to make it firm.

[BilliGoatsGruff (Billi)]

Originally Posted by OzStarGazer

Yes, collapsible is great, but there are obviously also some disadvantages in terms of stability, for example when you change the ep. Also always make sure the ep is firm in the focusser and that you have turned/tightened the screws enough to make it firm.

Does you 10mm ep get wobbly when you focus it? For me to see Jupiter clearly last night I had to turn to focus wheel almost all the way out. Which makes me realise that the focus wheel gets wobbly, not the ep. Did you ever have this problem?