inexpensive binoculars - recommendations

[julianh72 (Julian)]

Originally Posted by geolindon

it seems XCF = Xtra large Central Focusing and PCF = Porro prism Center Focusing (with the internal arm).

I'm not sure that the "X" in "XCF" actually "means" anything in particular (although the "CF" bit does mean "Centre Focus".

According to official Pentax / Ricoh support:
http://support.us.ricoh-imaging.com/node/529

Not all PENTAX binocular models are designated by letters that define a specific acronym or meaning. Some letters are merely used to denote a specific model. However, the following are definitions of specific acronyms used by PENTAX for certain binoculars: These acronyms denote specific binocular types (or designs):

DCF - "Dache" Center Focus (Dache is roof in German) which denotes a Roof Prism binocular.
PCF - Porro-Prism Center Focus “ - this denotes a Porro-Prism binocular.
UCF - Uni-body Center Focus “ - this denotes an inverted Porro-Prism binocular; (this design is for compactness).

These acronyms denote attributes of a binocular:

WP - Water Proof
SP - Superior Performance
ED - Extra-low Dispersion (denotes glass type)
HRc - High-Resolution / center diopter adjustment

[geolindon (Lindon)]

thanks again Julian,

indeed most of the letters in names took some working out AND were no real help in deciding what suited.

that's why it was great to have members' experiences to draw on to narrow down the type of binos that suit me.

the AA at Cloudy Nights has done lotsa well structured comparisons that helped me eliminate some other possibles and informed my 'half good luck and half good management' choice of the Pentax. I could not find his name to give him his due credit. a small bio says he has been involved in CN and writing articles/reports since its inception.

i'll now keep an eye out for the best deal, and check out any that come up . second hand. . . until i just order 'em new L

[julianh72 (Julian)]

Originally Posted by geolindon

this has tipped me more firmly towards the Pentax PCF WP 10x50 for my particular requirements because;

value for $200 ish,
nitrogen purged water proof,
manageable aperture and magnification for terrestrial,
AA reviewed good for hand held astronomy performance, one of the best behind Fujinon FMT-SX 10x50 benchmark.

The PCF WP are certainly very good binoculars, and 10x50 pretty much hits the "sweet spot" for general multi-purpose binoculars for handheld day-time and night-time use.

However, something else you might want to think about is the actual and apparent field of view.

The PCF WP 10x50 have an apparent field of view of "only" 50 degrees (actual field of view = 261 feet @ 1,000 yards, or 5.0 degrees). There is something truly magical and immersive if you can find a pair with a wider field of view. The cheaper XCF 10x50 whcih I bought have an apparent field of view of 65 degrees (actual field of view = 342 feet @ 1,000 yards, or 6.5 degrees), and even though the optical and build quality of the PCF is better, and the XCF are not waterproof, the extra field of view is really nice!

[geolindon (Lindon)]

Julian, that's a very good point u raise re. fov . . . . and as i go for 100D and 82D fov eps for the dobs . . . . hmmm ...

Water Proof is important for me for (the dominant) terrestrial use.

Ed Zarenski the AA from CN rated the PCFs sharp 80-85% to the edge and no design flaws reducing actual aperture, but still only giving an actual fov of 4.0 - 4.3 deg. . . . hmmmm . . .

And in your blog you really enjoy the 6.5 fov of your XCFs compared to your old fov of 4.5. . . . . . . .

real cause to reconsider.

also the Andrews High Grade (HG series) premium 10 x 50 binoculars look VERY similar to the Pentax XCF . . . . . .maybe a way of getting your fov in a WP case ???

more research is warranted . . 'cos i have the time atm

[geolindon (Lindon)]

i emailed Andrews for info re actual aperture and fov for their HG 10 x 50 and Luke kindly replied with a copy of the manufacturer's specs, including fov of 114m at 1000m.

i now see that Andrews include a link to their Chinese manufacturer - Kunming Optical Instruments Company Limited, at the top of their binocular web page :/soz Luke.

this fov compares very favorably with Julian's commended Pentax XCFs (under $100 incl pp) which i convert to be 113m at 1000m AND jumps all ova (68% more fov) the Pentax CPFs which i convert to be 87m at 1000m. (best price a bit over $200 incl pp)

soo. . . the Andrews HGs which are WP, look like the XCFs which are not WP and have the same fov. but Luke said; "They do look similar but I could not say if they are the same as the Pentax model you mentioned."

the Andrews HGs at $229 +pp are nitrogen purged WP, Bak 4 prisms and BFMC Broad-band Fully Multi Coated. so it all looks good for my requirements, though the manufacturer does not specify actual aperture nor fov edge sharpness.

Alex aka Mental is happy with his Andrews 11x70s so in the absence of any other reviews that's the only extrapolated guide i have to the likely optical quality of the HGs. that and Andrews reputation seems pretty good.

any one wanna do a review please? Lindon

[julianh72 (Julian)]

Originally Posted by geolindon

soo. . . the Andrews HGs which are WP, look like the XCFs which are not WP and have the same fov. but Luke said; "They do look similar but I could not say if they are the same as the Pentax model you mentioned."

The Pentax XCFs are made in the Philippines, not China, so the Andrews HGs may or may not be optically similar, but they don't come out of the same plant.

[geolindon (Lindon)]

thanks again Julian, clears up that suspicion

i just read back through the posts in this thread and Skywatch Dean has already given a good review;
"They (Andrews) also stock the "High Grade" HG series: these are about 1/2 the price of the MB's, and a lot lighter to hold/carry. Optically they are very good. I have had a pair of these for some time, and the only complaint I have is that the rubber "armour" around the barrel has come loose: they aren't waterproof any more!"

i wandered up some dry gullies, n Dean had already found the waterhole