A great day for minorities

[Steffen]

Well, who would have thought, homophobia is alive and well. I hope this answers the question why Cook would see a need to go public with his sexuality.

Cheers
Steffen.

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by Steffen

Well, who would have thought, homophobia is alive and well. I hope this answers the question why Cook would see a need to go public with his sexuality.

Cheers
Steffen.

I'm confident Steffen that rationality, logic and ethics will win in the end. Like apartheid in SA, racial segregation in the US (and Australia) and a womans place being in the home, the old antiquated narrow minded views formed on baseless perceptions and not facts will slowly die a natural death and we will all get used to seeing same sex couples as we do every other couple, they will always be a minority but society will come to see them as quite normal in every way

Mike

[Steffen]

I share this confidence, but sometimes things seem to progress too slowly, measured in terms of a person's lifetime. It can be disheartening to see oneself surrounded by medievalists masquerading as modern people.

Cheers
Steffen.

[sheeny (Al)]

We are watching this thread.

May I just remind all participants, the topic is NOT whether or not gays can have kids. Please keep it on topic and play the ball not the player.

Topics around social change are always going to be controversial, and important (social change can't happen without discussion), but keep it civil, please, or it will be shutdown.

Al.

[jenchris (Jennifer)]

Stability in a relationship is quite rare these days.
I've been with my partner for 34 years. It seems that we're unusual in the normal scheme of things.
The way a relationship works has a lot to do with public acceptance as well as caring within the couple.
I don't care whether a couple are as disparate as African Bushman and Inuit Indian, if they love each other and can develop a stable environment to bring up a child, why should they not? Their sex OR gender is irrelevant. As it is in work or community status.
PS I'm not talking about having kids here, I'm talking about stability and acceptance.

[rat156]

Originally Posted by sheeny

We are watching this thread.

May I just remind all participants, the topic is NOT whether or not gays can have kids. Please keep it on topic and play the ball not the player.

Topics around social change are always going to be controversial, and important (social change can't happen without discussion), but keep it civil, please, or it will be shutdown.

Al.

Hi Al and Mods,

The thread evolved from "The CEO of Apple announced that he is gay" to "Gays don't have the right to have kids" very early on. If the thread had stayed on the original topic I would not have posted. BUT when I see someone advocating that another person has no right to have kids because of their sexual preference I cannot sit idly by and let them expose their bigotry, it must be challenged. Particularly, in this case, as their argument is based on ideology rather than fact.

So what is "on topic"? Surely threads evolve from the initial statement. As you say, social change can be a divisive topic, but it must be discussed openly and freely.

Cheers
Stuart

[Solitarian]

Originally Posted by Steffen

I know that here on IIS we are (mostly) in enlightened company,
Steffen.

I love the Sunday funnies

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by Steffen

I know that here on IIS we are (mostly) in enlightened company, so this may be akin to taking owls to Athens, but I thought I share this anyway:

Steffen.

Frankly, I don't give a stuff what anyone does in their private lives as long as it doesn't hurt or impinge on the rights of others or damage the environment. However, I am sick to death of individuals like this who see it as some kind of bragging right to call themselves "gay"; or is he just trying to get approval for something that causes many people complete revulsion.

I don't have a need to tell everyone else my sexual orientation and I don't give a stuff what he does in his private life BUT I don't want, or need, to know about it either.

[julianh72 (Julian)]

Originally Posted by Steffen

Well, who would have thought, homophobia is alive and well. I hope this answers the question why Cook would see a need to go public with his sexuality.

Cheers
Steffen.

Absolutely!

My first response when Tim Cook "outed" himself was "So what?" Why is this news?

Some of the homophobic responses in what I would consider to be an intelligent and informed forum such as this explain precisely why it is unfortunately still necessary for gay role models to go public.

[gts055 (Mark)]

Saddens me to read this thread. Astronomy brings us together but so much friction caused by those who appear to have little appreciation for the battle endured by many minority groups. Those who don't conform to the narrow minded "normal" box are ostracized. I agree with the views of Steffen, Strongmanmike and Jenchris. A greater tolerance and acceptance for individuality and free expression would make for a much nicer world. Mark

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by gts055

Saddens me to read this thread. Astronomy brings us together but so much friction caused by those who appear to have little appreciation for the battle endured by many minority groups. Those who don't conform to the narrow minded "normal" box are ostracized. I agree with the views of Steffen, Strongmanmike and Jenchris. A greater tolerance and acceptance for individuality and free expression would make for a much nicer world. Mark

In my experience, any comment that does not conform with political correctness gets you labelled a red neck, or worse. If minorities, including homesexuals, want to put it out there, then these minorities should be prepared for comment under the "free expression" clause. In this, and many other countries, it is illegal to express an alternative view about homosexuality. So much for free expression.

In this case, I don't need or want to know what anyone else does in their private lives and I feel justified in stating that and challenging those who seek to push their cause, or defend it.

Having said that, I reserve the right NOT to offer my opinion on the sexual orientation of someone else, or my own beliefs on the matter.

I would also ask the question, "What is normal" I haven't met one of those yet. They must be a very small minority.

[doppler (Rick)]

Originally Posted by el_draco

I would also ask the question, "What is normal" I haven't met one of those yet. They must be a very small minority.

Old men sitting outside, in the dark all night, on their own. Now there is a minority group that most would think is definitely not normal.

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by doppler

Old men sitting outside, in the dark all night, on their own. Now there is a minority group that most would think is definitely not normal.

OLD? You talkin about me??

[OzStarGazer]

Aren't we a minority too? Most people think that being interested in astronomy is weird...

[PCH (Paul)]

If nature intended for the night to be dark and the day light, then that's normal and it isn't for us to try to interfere with that.

If nature intended for the poles to be full of ice, then it's not for us to interfere with that either. And when we do, like we are right now in this example, then all he'll breaks loose and we all realise what idiots we've been not to see the danger signs earlier.

And if nature decides that for the human race to procreate 'normally' it must include a man and a woman to further the species.

Anyone who says different is deceiving themselves.

I'm not saying that they don't have rights and should be treated with respect in other facets of life. But I AM saying, it isn't normal for a child to be brought up by two men or women.

And it's not my opinion, so (Stuart) it's no use labelling me a bigot! - it's a fact of nature and there's no denying that.

Originally Posted by gts055

Saddens me to read this thread. Astronomy brings us together but so much friction caused by those who appear to have little appreciation for the battle endured by many minority groups. Those who don't conform to the narrow minded "normal" box are ostracized. I agree with the views of Steffen, Strongmanmike and Jenchris. A greater tolerance and acceptance for individuality and free expression would make for a much nicer world. Mark

[doppler (Rick)]

At least we don't need to seek approval (outside our peer group).

Although everyone thinks that we are a pretty cool bunch (briefly) when there is an eclipse or bright comet around.

Originally Posted by el_draco

OLD? You talkin about me??

I am no spring chicken my self, my daughter thought it was a funny analogy but she is part astronomer and understands these things.

[rrussell1962]

Those of us that are heterosexual make a public statement of our sexuality every time we mention our wife, partner, children without any fear of being ridiculed or abused. We do it every time we show affection in public without fear of ridicule or abuse. Sadly many people are not in that position.

As for nature intending night to be dark - I shall try to remember that when I get home tonight and am tempted to turn the light on.

[jenchris (Jennifer)]

In some cultures, it is normal for children to be brought up to puberty by the females of the 'tribe'
Your point of view of this is slanted by western norms.

[xelasnave]

What is normal?
Much of human behaviour is arguably...not normal.
Is deviation from normal to be regarded with suspicion?
Normal is mostly a personal standard.
Good luck to Apple and their CEO
Good luck to good parents whoever they are.

[OzStarGazer]

Edit:
I am trying to post a link that is automatically edited/changed when I post it so it does not work..... (The female word for gay is automatically changed to ********)

Just search in Google for famous gay people + Wikipedia.