IMO those 10X50 Pentax PCF WP are a very good choice and you will be hard pressed to do better for under $300. I have owned 2 pairs in this series 8x40's and 16x60's and like them a lot. Unlike Steve, I think you will find the 5.0 deg FOV adequate. These binos are very sharp over 85% to 90% of that narrow FOV and useable to the EOF. Binoculars costing less than about $800 may offer a wider FOV but will not be useable over the entire FOV. They may be useable over 70% of a wider FOV. I prefer a narrower sharp FOV when observing with binos.
Stay away from lower to mid priced roof prism binoculars which those Pentax roof prisms are. At almost $1,000 they sound expensive but for roof prism binos thats only mid level. Because of the internal design of roof prism binoculars the images are not as bright as porro prism binoculars, unless you buy the absolute top end roof prism binoculars from people like Leica, Zeiss, Nikon, Swarovski, Canon etc.
Regardless, I think you're better staying with a porro prism binocular because they cost a lot less to make hence buy and give brighter images which is important for night time observation. ie. A top shelf porro prism binocular will cost a lot less than a top shelf roof prism binocular.
A beginner may not pick all the advantages of an expensive binocular over a cheap binocular but most will be apparent given a little time. Generally with optics you get what you pay for and if you can afford a good pair of binoculars it is worth buying them IMO.
There are several excellent porro prism binoculars suitable for astronomy available in 10x50 size. I don't have time to post the links at the moment as I am about to leave for work but will amend this post later today with some links to some suitable higher end porro prism binoculars.
Here is an excerpt from an IIS article on binoculars that I will be co-authoring, along with anyone within the community who would like to collaborate. As John is rushing off to work, I thought I would post this draft, along with the attached image, to save him having to explain in detail the difference between Porro and Roof Prism design.
Start excerpt:
Porro Prism Design
Porro-prism binoculars were first designed in the mid-1800s by an Italian inventor, Paolo Ignazio Pietra Porro. His concept of placing two right-angled prisms in each barrel of a set of binoculars is still used today. Porro-prism binoculars are the stereotypical angled-body binocular design. When standing on their barrels, or hanging from a strap around someone's neck, Porro-prism binoculars appear to form an M shape.
Porros focus by relying upon an external focus wheel which, when turned, causes the eyepieces for each side to slide forward or backward along an external tube. This type of focusing allows for sharp images of close objects, as well as precise focusing on objects as close as six feet. Advantages
Less expensive.
Good optical quality.
Greater stereoscopic, or three-dimensional view.
Brighter images due to greater transmission of light.
Fast focusing.
Close focusing.
Wider field of view (the amount of area you see when looking through the binoculars).
For low-to-mid-range priced binoculars, Porro-prisms offer the best value.
Disadvantages
Less compact, not as comfortable to hold for long periods, may be less rugged than roof prisms
Weight (the better transmission of light is due to large prisms, which are weighty) and bulkiness, which can make Porros hard to use for small-handed folks.
The external focusing mechanisms of many Porros can make for less durable binoculars, that is, ones that can be more easily jarred out of alignment.
Roof Prism Design
Roof prisms binoculars are more compact. However, to achieve the same optical quality as Porro prism models, they usually cost more to manufacture. Many people will express a strong preference for one over the other. For example, the Porro prism design with its wider spaced objectives and can show slightly more "depth" in the image where as the roof prism's image appears more compressed.
Roof-prism binoculars were first developed by a German binocular manufacturer in the mid-1800s. This design features two straight barrels, giving it an H-shaped appearance.
The design reflects light through a series of five small prisms in each barrel. Roof-prism binocs have grown in popularity in the last few decades, primarily because many leading optics manufacturers are producing excellent optics in this format. Because of the way roof-prisms are designed, most of the focusing hardware is enclosed inside the body of the binoculars. This hardware is adjusted with an external focusing knob or wheel. Advantages
Considerably more compact than comparable porro prism model and usually easier to hold for long periods.
Are generally manufactured to closer optical and mechanical tolerances making them more rugged than comparable quality porro prism binoculars.
Ease of handling
Fewer external moving parts (which means increased durability)
A better ratio of power-to-weight; that is, in general, a 10x roof-prism weighs less than a 10x Porro.
Disadvantages
Higher cost.
Tend to be more expensive than Porros
Often don't focus as closely
Because of the additional prisms required to reflect incoming light, roof prisms often do not offer as "bright" an image as Porros.
The information Dennis has provided above is spot on and spells out the reasons you're better off with a good porro prism binocular in this case, as I indicated in my previous post.
Without going to the extremes of spending $2,000 to $3,000 on a pair of top quality roof prism binoculars, there are several outstanding porro prism binoculars which can be purchased for well under $A1,500 locally, or a lot less if you want to import them from the USA. These will at least equal if not outperform the top roof prism binoculars optically for astronomical and daytime observations. The downside is that ergonomically they are not quite as nice as the roof's, although still very good.
If you can afford a good quality pair of binoculars you should buy them IMO, as I said previously you get what you pay for. Unfortunately the cost increases logarithmically in terms of performance gains.
You will notice I have linked these to US websites but they are available in Australia.
All 3 of these binoculars would last you a lifetime and are superb optically and mechanically.
Dennis,
In your post you mention that porro prism binoculars have "external" focusing mechanisms making them slightly harder to waterproof and shockproof. Well that used to be true I have just ordered the 1st "internally" focusing porro prism binocular on the market
Don't underestimate the convenience of being able to wipe the dew off the lenses with your shirt sleeve in the field on less expensive binos, and not having the neurotic urge to put it back in its case with the lenscaps on every time you put it down.
This is one of the things I like most about my Pentax PCF (2nd hand < $100). It's plenty good enough for handheld stargazing and as a finder but it's also inexpensive and well-used enough, so that I don't feel sorry for it when i don't handle it with the utmost care. Part of the reason I just sold my little Fujinon.
I'd never spend more than a few hundred on binoculars.. yes they're a great and invaluable tool, but any more than that and I'd feel the money is more value put towards a better telescope, better eyepieces etc.
Once you have a telescope, you'll use it far more than your binoculars.
If you plan to use the binos for terrestrial use (birdwatching etc), then maybe it's worth spending a little more on a good quality pair.
I'd never spend more than a few hundred on binoculars.
Mike/Steve,
Everyone's case is different. I wouldn't tell Jamie Packer he should only buy a $300 pair of binoculars because he won't use them as much as his telescope. Jamie wouldn't give a rats ar__ if he dropped a $3,000 pair of binos in the water at the beach
For the guy with 3 starving kids, a mortgage, a missus that doesn't work and gross weekly pay of $400, I would consider any binocular over $300 as a complete waste of money, unnecessary and over the top.
For someone with no kids, no mortgage, a missus that works and a weekly wage of over $3k I would think it foolish to buy any pair of binoculars costing less than $700. Nothing has changed, you get what you pay for and yes any experienced observer can immediately tell the difference between a $300 pair of binoculars and a $1,000 pair of binoculars. They are a fair way apart, just not 3 times better.
Have you ever looked through a pair of Nikon SE's or Fujinon FMT-SX to actually see how much better they are than the cheaper binoculars, or are you merely making an assumption that the cheaper binos are fine because they do "a fair job" without really knowing what top quality binoculars are all about ?
Steve, those Fujinon 8x42 BFL's you just sold are NOT actually made by Fujinon. They are made by a 3rd party Japanese manufacturer for Fujinon as a budget/entry level birding binocular. The Fujinon FMT-SX are made by Fujinon and are in a different class altogether to the BFL series, that's why they cost 3 times more money.
Mike,
I have been using binoculars for 40 years and my binoculars have always served dual duty for both astronomical use and daytime use. For many years I used a pair of older Carl Zeiss Jena 10x50WA Jenoptem (Dekarem) Binos for both astronomy and daytime observation. They cost an arm and a leg when they were bought for me (21st b/day present). I rarely left the house for any trip or even extended time period that they didn't go with me. Unfortunately those older porro prism binoculars were not impervious to salt water and several hundred offshore fishing trips and several thousand litres of salt spray ultimately saw them head to greener pastures. Would I have traded them for a cheap pair of binos because I stuffed them after 23 years of hard use and abuse ? Not a a chance, I would have replaced them with the same, except Carl Zeiss Jena stopped making binos in about 1991 with the unification of East and West Germany. These were crackers for the time period and the design stood the test of time for over 50 years. Of course with modern materials and technology things have moved on in terms of contrast and light transmission. I always believe in buying the best quality you can afford because "the poor man always pays twice" and "the pain of poor quality lingers long after the joy of low price".
As I said before "O", if it's not going to cause any financial or marital pain, buy a "DECENT" pair of binoculars. In other words a pair of porro prism binos costing over $A700. If you fit into the category where money is an issue, then you will be more than happy with a cheaper/medium pair of porro prism binoculars like the Pentax PCF WP II 10x50's costing about $250.
Have you ever looked through a pair of Nikon SE's or Fujinon FMT-SX to actually see how much better they are than the cheaper binoculars, or are you merely making an assumption that the cheaper binos are fine because they do "a fair job" without really knowing what top quality binoculars are all about ?
No I have never looked through one of them bad boys. It sounds like maybe I shouldn't either. I must admit that when I am using binos for star hopping, just to find something so then I can look at it 'properly' with the scope, the quality of the cheaper binos doesn't worry me (though I still want good coatings and baffling so I can actually see what I'm looking for). But when I lay back in the recliner and use the binos for actual observing, then I wish I had a better quality pair with sharper stars across the FOV, less CA, more contrast etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ausastronomer
Steve, those Fujinon 8x42 BFL's you just sold are NOT actually made by Fujinon. They are made by a 3rd party Japanese manufacturer for Fujinon as a budget/entry level birding binocular. ...
That's what the person who bought it told me too. Although I did not know about the inner workings of Fujinon, for $300 I never expected that they would be in the same league as the $1000+ models.
thank you everyone for all your help .. John, thats exactly the type of advice I was looking for ..... specific models ....
i got my first binocular ( ever ) !!!! the search is over.
the final decision went to the Pentax PCF 10x50 WPII for several reasons of my own....
the viewing is great and already exceed a newbie's expectation like me!
John, even if I decide to get better ones in the future, this Pentax one can still be use for more rougher purposes!
thank you all again, until next time ... general consensus on scope! (hey Dennis, great work on the bino's article .... can't wait to see your next one on scope! )
I have just ordered the 1st "internally" focusing porro prism binocular on the market
