I want an Astronomy career in WA - advice needed

[madbadgalaxyman (Robert)]

Originally Posted by narky

I mostly just watch any/all docos and have done a few online Astrononomy courses.
Happy with all the maths mentioned but I am not a big fan of statistics - at least not off the top of my head,
My knowledge of biology, chemistry, and geology is pretty much non-existant.
I have done zero physics since leaving school. Pretty close to no maths also. However I occassionally do polish up my math skills and school level math comes back to me very quickly. I follow a couple of math youtube channels.

Was the astronomy course(s) you did quantitative (physical)(mathematical), or was it at the descriptive level? Lots of graphs and some equations, or just descriptions?

I personally have completed quite a number of maths and physics units at the university level, and the standard introductory maths unit at the beginning just begins with a more rigorous reworking , with some extensions, of advanced Australian year 12 mathematics.
So the university maths shouldn't hit you too hard when you do it! As Prof Ken Freeman of ANU (one of the great extragalactic astronomers) has said in his 'advice' regarding studying astronomy, the biggest hurdle for most people is learning the mathematics, so you are already doing OK in this area.

However, the introductory physics units at uni seem to be a big jump from the very basic physics that people study at school, so perhaps you need to start thinking about revising physics, perhaps using one of the upper college-level textbooks from the US, which go well beyond what we learnt in year 12 in Australia.

I will admit that my question about knowledge of other sciences was a loaded question to assess your level of knowledge & curiosity & drive regarding scientific learning, but your answer does indicate that you might (conceivably) be a bit rusty, insofar as being used to studying things. (I did a Bachelor of Information Technology when I was your age, and it took me a while to re-adapt to intensive studying.). Get adjusted to massive mental data uploads!

[rustigsmed (Russell)]

Hi Sam,

Perhaps you could get involved in existing professional amateur programs. Its something that I would like to do in 5 years or so. This way you can start contributing to science and start networking with the professionals while you kick off your studies.

Otherwise here is a traineeship in Canberra that I found
http://www.seek.com.au/job/27123566

Best of luck


Rusty

[narky (Sam)]

Originally Posted by madbadgalaxyman

Was the astronomy course(s) you did quantitative (physical)(mathematical), or was it at the descriptive level? Lots of graphs and some equations, or just descriptions?

Just descriptions. Mostly watching vids, a lilttle reading, a bunch of podcasts from some experts (it was a pretty good course, but i'm not at all suggesting it makes me ready for anything), just pointing out that I have continued to look at some basics from time to time.

Originally Posted by madbadgalaxyman

However, the introductory physics units at uni seem to be a big jump from the very basic physics that people study at school, so perhaps you need to start thinking about revising physics,

Good idea. I might check out Khan Academy's physics and then assess things from there. Find a book after I do a little research where I'm weak.

Originally Posted by madbadgalaxyman

I will admit that my question about knowledge of other sciences was a loaded question to assess your level of knowledge & curiosity & drive regarding scientific learning, but your answer does indicate that you might (conceivably) be a bit rusty, insofar as being used to studying things. (I did a Bachelor of Information Technology when I was your age, and it took me a while to re-adapt to intensive studying.). Get adjusted to massive mental data uploads!

Eh. I was doing my MBA in Sydney a few years ago. I have no problem with the workload, or structure of learning. Especially as I'll only be doing it part time. Thankfully the Diploma would only be studying Math/Physics, so I can avoid the science that doesn't interest me (chem, biology, geology). I think I should be able to learn one math and one physics subject a semester without damaging my brain.

My whole family has studied science at uni to some extent (except me). My mum was a nurse, brother has a science degree, masters in audiology, another masters in environmental science, and something on the history and philosophy of science. My sister is a surgeon, and my other sister studied science and then radiography. So I have a some idea what's involved. As I say, well aware that the odd youtube video and online course doesn't really count for anything. I'm scared, but hopeful. I doubt I'll have much trouble completing the subjects or the course, excelling in them however, that's where the trouble lies. I guess we'll see.

Originally Posted by rustigsmed

Hi Sam,
Perhaps you could get involved in existing professional amateur programs.
Rusty

Sounds good. I wouldn't know where to find such a thing. For the moment I'm happy just doing whatever I can online. I play on the odd zooniverse project from time to time.

Thanks for the input everyone!

[madbadgalaxyman (Robert)]

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

As an earth scientist you don't chose research topics based on where you live or where the weather is nice. You think of what you can do with what you have available that no one else has done that will get you that paper in Nature, or at least a tier 1 journal. If that means going to Lake Eyre or the Gulf of Carpentaria or Argentina or Siberia - you go. I imagine astronomy is somewhat similar. You first chose a project based on the quality of research it will generate; then you decide how to carry out the research. Perhaps you need the SKA, but perhaps the Compact Array will do just as well - and getting time on it will be easier. Maybe you need time on an IR scope and some satellite x-ray data. You might be based in Perth but getting data from NSW, Chile and NASA.

Worthwhile comments David, and, I am sure, applicable to astronomy and to other sciences.

In part, I hear you saying that "nobody is going to hand you a science career on a platter." (absolutely agree).

Also, I have collected considerable anecdotal evidence that what you say about geology careers also applies to astronomy careers; that astronomers have to hang out in a lot of strange and unusual and distant places in order to get a position.
To give three examples:
- many astronomers live in Chile because Chile gets a lot of guaranteed telescope time, and a lot of astronomers end up in Latin American countries for the same reason.
- The University of Cape Town, which had an excellent (but very small) astronomy department that mainly did optical astronomy, has all of a sudden acquired several mid and mid-to-late career radio astronomers from far flung countries. (no prizes for guessing why; it boils down to three letters.... S...K...A )
- Another recent example of astronomers moving to "unusual" locations is the recent exodus of astronomers to an Australian institution where there has obviously been enough money to fund a lot of new positions....I refer to the recent enormous growth of the Swinburne University astronomy department. [ Suddenly, a few 'top' astronomers have materialized there, plus a lot of postdocs and other footsoldiers of astronomy.]

cheers,
Robert

[Nortilus (Josh)]

narky, I too would love a job at the SKA, either in the later stages of development, the contruction stage or even just maintenance and upgrades in the future, but I have decided to take a different path and may just be as important as the actual scientists themselves.

I have chosen the path of the electrical engineer and I am in the process of getting my prerequisites to start my degree next year. I am only 31 and I know that if I do my masters in engineering i will be closer to 40 when done. Engineers are a major part of most Astronomy research as they are the people that help design and build most of the equipment that the researchers use. Trust me when I say that there is alot of math and physics in engineering if you need this kind of cerebral nourisment, but consider this a path as well. And sure you can tack on a few astronomy courses along the way to get a general knowledge of the field and maybe a better foot in the door when doing a selection criteia for a research job where they need engineers.

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by madbadgalaxyman

Worthwhile comments David, and, I am sure, applicable to astronomy and to other sciences.

In part, I hear you saying that "nobody is going to hand you a science career on a platter." (absolutely agree).

Also, I have collected considerable anecdotal evidence that what you say about geology careers also applies to astronomy careers; that astronomers have to hang out in a lot of strange and unusual and distant places in order to get a position.
To give three examples:
- many astronomers live in Chile because Chile gets a lot of guaranteed telescope time, and a lot of astronomers end up in Latin American countries for the same reason.
- The University of Cape Town, which had an excellent (but very small) astronomy department that mainly did optical astronomy, has all of a sudden acquired several mid and mid-to-late career radio astronomers from far flung countries. (no prizes for guessing why; it boils down to three letters.... S...K...A )
- Another recent example of astronomers moving to "unusual" locations is the recent exodus of astronomers to an Australian institution where there has obviously been enough money to fund a lot of new positions....I refer to the recent enormous growth of the Swinburne University astronomy department. [ Suddenly, a few 'top' astronomers have materialized there, plus a lot of postdocs and other footsoldiers of astronomy.]

cheers,
Robert

Not quite what I was saying. I'm just saying that the location of the institution for which you work may not have much (or any) bearing on where you do fieldwork. Similarly, working in Perth may not give you any greater access, or chance of access, to the SKA than working in Sydney or Melbourne. In the case of astronomy I understand that host countries tend to have favourable amounts of telescope time, however I doubt host states will do better than anywhere else.

[narky (Sam)]

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

Not quite what I was saying. I'm just saying that the location of the institution for which you work may not have much (or any) bearing on where you do fieldwork. Similarly, working in Perth may not give you any greater access, or chance of access, to the SKA than working in Sydney or Melbourne. In the case of astronomy I understand that host countries tend to have favourable amounts of telescope time, however I doubt host states will do better than anywhere else.

I get what you are saying, but that's a bit ahead of me at the moment. UWA and Curtin unis are tied in with the SKA though. Which is why I thought someone may be able to shed light on which might be the better course in that regards. I figured doing project work there would at least help me get my foot in the door. It's all good, after looking at my options, the UWA diploma (studying just the physics core subjects) looks like my only hope. I'm quite happy just learning and seeing what happens from there (I'm not a long term planner, more a bit of a dreamer).

Fingers crossed. I spoke to the admissions people last night and they advised my school results are still good for admission, as is my business degree despite not being at all related. Kinda scary that 20 year old results (especially for math) still qualifies. I think they just want any excuse to fill up numbers when it comes to undergrad spots.

[narky (Sam)]

I found an old Physics series - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mechanical_Universe

Here it is on youtube

Might be worth a look. I"m sure for the first year stuff this couldn't be too dated.

[madbadgalaxyman (Robert)]

G'day Sam,

I am still working on some recommendations for textbooks on each of the various aspects of astronomy, but if you need to get an overview of astronomy that is more detailed and more accurate than a General Astronomy textbook, I strongly recommend that you get "The Astronomy and Astrophysics Encyclopedia", edited by Steven P. Maran : :
http://www.amazon.com/Astronomy-Astr...s+encyclopedia
(I have reviewed it, at this amazon.com page)

(NOTE: THERE IS ANOTHER REFERENCE BOOK IN EXISTENCE WITH NEARLY THE SAME NAME)

While this book uses little mathematics, it has a strongly physical approach which imparts detailed and structured understanding. Much better than any of the introductory university astronomy textbooks, all of which lack detail on a lot of topics.

For a person on the path to becoming a professional astronomer, there is little point to read introductory general astronomy textbooks, as you essentially have to relearn everything you read in them, later on, because they don't take the approach that a professional astronomer would take. (each substantial article in this Encyc. is written by a qualified subject specialist who is "in on the game" of professional astronomy)

cheers,
Bad Galaxy Man

Anyone needing this encyclopedia should also check out the available copies at www.abebooks.com

[CarlJoseph (Carl)]

Hey Sam,

I was in a similar boat as you. Loved science as a kid but studied music at uni and ended up working in IT. Now 38 I'm part way through a Masters in Science.

I don't believe I have what it takes to become a full-time "scientist", but I do love the learning experience and getting entrenched in the research that is happening. I'm thinking of eventually going into the science communication area. Working in public speaking, writing, tour guiding, whatever.

Have you considered those types of adjacent careers?

If you don't feel like you have time for the full undergrad/masters/phd path, then a "lighter" style masters like the ones offered by Swinburne might be of interest. I'm doing their online masters as the moment and it's great. It won't lead to a PhD or a job working with SKA, but it'll help with some of those adjacent careers.

Cheers,
C.