Have we reached "Peak Human"?

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by clive milne

Oh, I don't know about that.
I reckon Sarah Palin could take Steven hawking if she played her cards right.

Not sure she would have the intelligence to realise the chair was not some kind of Dalek technology..

[xelasnave]

Consider this
She was elected by the people
Was she the smart one in the bunch????
Thinking about the list in the original post.
Many of the observations may not be across the population
If you go to the pub many may present as mentioned but some still may be smart etc the environment altering their presentation
I met a scientist at the Drake pub it was not until I spoke to him on three occasions that he opened up...An exceptional intelect .
At the hospital I was impressed by every one smart on the ball from the doctors thru to tea ladies
I prefer to believe things are getting better.
Years ago superstition was the norm and although still out there may well be less
But I think examination of graduation figures from or Universities will show a higher per capita of graduates than in the past.
I am prepared to come down on the side that we are not ready for a decline.

[clive milne]

Alex,
The degree to which a society is educated is not a good measure of its cultural merit. I would point you to a rather extreme example, that being the Nazis who had a large percentage of highly intelligent and educated people amongst their number. They also placed a degree of importance on the education system in their society that has seldom been matched.

Of course I am in no way advocating ignorance, fascism or rabid nationalism.

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Consider this
She was elected by the people
Was she the smart one in the bunch????

Probably
I remember seeing Bush senior and Junior talk and there was a very good reason they were often compared to chimps. The species appears to have taken over our government as well, both sides

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Thinking about the list in the original post.
Many of the observations may not be across the population.

I met a scientist at the Drake pub it was not until I spoke to him on three occasions that he opened up...An exceptional intellect.

That's absolutely true but numbers of intelligent people appear to be dwindling at an alarming rate. I wonder whether the scientist was so used to blank expressions when he opened his mouth that he adopted a form of Batesian Mimicry. Are there millions of intelligent people masquerading as thick skulled bogans lurking in Pubs around the world???
Now that's food for thought!!

I stopped going to Pubs 30 years ago...

Originally Posted by xelasnave

At the hospital I was impressed by every one smart on the ball from the doctors thru to tea ladies

My wife trains medical students in primary health care and often uses me as a candidate when writing exam questions for students. I am not medically trained but often do better in the test. I stay out of hospital

Originally Posted by xelasnave

But I think examination of graduation figures from or Universities will show a higher per capita of graduates than in the past.

The courses are constantly being dumbed down and you often get multiple shots to get the answer right. Not a good idea in most professions... "Ok nurse, hit him with 200mg of Morphine, If that doesn't work, lets try 500!"

The stuff I learned at high school is now beyond most graduate teachers and many who have been in the profession for a number of years. In a lot of cases, trainee teachers have significant literacy and numeracy issues themselves and us "oldies" are dropping like flies. Its becoming a case of "Dumb teaching dumber".

Above all though, personal ethics and basic morality are becoming rare commodities.

I keep having nightmares about "Idiocracy".... I fear its coming true

[xelasnave]

Ethics seems a concern
Some of the political corruption of late was beyond belief
And as a generalisation they never get time
Nevertheless I feel that in my case I am just getting old and cranky and that inhibits my ability to make fair judgement.
The thing that interests me is how things like face book twiter and forums such as IIS must add to inteligence
I know a lot more about astronomy and related matters because of our forum than I could ever know say 30 years ago and of course there is Utube
You can get instruction on anything and often there a number of authors to choose from
I can attend lectures given by Leonard Siskin on general relativity.
I can attend Stanford University
I can watch work via web can inside NASA
I have been inside a fussion reactor
There are so many things I have had access to
Now those following have the same benefits available surely something must rib off on someone
So I remain optimistic

[Retrograde (Pete)]

One of the issues is that much of the western media no longer pretends to care about what they print or broadcast.

They no longer try to inspire or inform but sensationalise and misrepresent for their own purposes. Our societies are drowning in media-driven hype, faux-outrage and advertising dressed up as news. It has to have an effect.

[Matt Wastell (Matt)]

I have often thought the same - we may as well pull the plug & let evolution have another crack - in saying that, I feel the masses are probably no 'dumber' than at any time in the past but the brightest are brighter - we are still ahead in the long run.

[clive milne]

Originally Posted by Retrograde

One of the issues is that much of the western media no longer pretends to care about what they print or broadcast.

They no longer try to inspire or inform but sensationalise and misrepresent for their own purposes. Our societies are drowning in media-driven hype, faux-outrage and advertising dressed up as news. It has to have an effect.

Nail on head right there. I would go further though.
The mainstream media does more than just misrepresent current affairs (and history) for someone else's benefit. To the extent that it manufactures consent (or mandate) It effectively becomes an active participant.
The corollary to this is that democracy in a capitalist economic framework will inevitably be perverted by the highest bidder. (Multinational corporations &/or foreign national interests) Not that democracy is a particularly good idea. Its very foundation is a false premise. That being the will of the lowest common denominator is consistent with the best course of action for a society. Try employing democracy with your kids for example.

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by clive milne

Nail on head right there. I would go further though.
The mainstream media does more than just misrepresent current affairs (and history) for someone else's benefit. To the extent that it manufactures consent (or mandate) It effectively becomes an active participant.

Classic example is MH17. Everyone screams blue murder about "Putin the terrible" being responsible but the shooting down of an Iranian airliner by the yanks was a "tragic mistake".... Hypocrisy at best. Num-num in charge should know better but feeds the fire. Idiots

[clive milne]

Yeah,
I don't know what to make of mh17 and the Ukrainian situation other than someone just raised the stakes by a fair margin. As for the media's portrayal of events surrounding it, a healthy pinch of salt is probably required. If you want a good example of how cynical, corrupt and manipulative the media can be, the involvement of France and Goldman Sachs in the Libyan revolution is a classic tale worth researching that should reasonably result in you turning off your television for good.

[UniPol]

I suggest reading Philip Gibbs' "The Riddle of a Changing World" (1960), very relevant to this discussion.

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by el_draco

Classic example is MH17. Everyone screams blue murder about "Putin the terrible" being responsible but the shooting down of an Iranian airliner by the yanks was a "tragic mistake".... Hypocrisy at best. Num-num in charge should know better but feeds the fire. Idiots

Do you think sending our police there is somewhat asking for trouble?
Where do we go if one or more are killed?

[Renato1 (Renato)]

Originally Posted by el_draco

4/ Life expectancy is falling

5/ Bogan is the new cool

Life expectancy is rising.

As to your general proposition, get hold of the movie "Idiocracy".
It addresses what you raise,and may be the most prophetic SF movie ever made about western civilisation.

On the other hand, ask school teachers who are totally thrashing Australian kids in school. I know that where I used to live, eastern European and Asian kids are miles ahead - because their parents ride them hard, and they manage to overcome the limitations of the feminized classrooms which have been in vogue for a few decades, were all semblance of competition has been removed.

With Western culture, values and traditions constantly under attack from within, barring a turnaround, other cultures will advance using the techniques first devised by the West.

This article I read today, relating to life in the USA, bore a strong resonance to what I observed during the last few governments here, and what I see daily on our ABC, the Fairfax press and most free-to-air networks.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/...a_leftist.html
Though where she talks about "leftists" I think she is really referring to secular humanists.

Regards,
Renato

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by Renato1

Life expectancy is rising.

The current generation of Americans is expected to have a lower life expectancy than their parents. Toxic environment and food is probably the main culprit leading to obesity a range of other unpleasant outcomes. Lifestyle has stuffed puberty to the point where lower primary children are "developing" early. They also have lower fertility though this is a world wide problem. I expect we have well and proper topped the bell curve for life expectancy. Whilst advances in medical science are impacting in some areas, I suspect it'll be short lived.

Originally Posted by Renato1

As to your general proposition, get hold of the movie "Idiocracy".
It addresses what you raise,and may be the most prophetic SF movie ever made about western civilisation.

Already saw it and it took a few nights to get good sleep again.

Originally Posted by Renato1

On the other hand, ask school teachers who are totally thrashing Australian kids in school. I know that where I used to live, eastern European and Asian kids are miles ahead - because their parents ride them hard, and they manage to overcome the limitations of the feminized classrooms which have been in vogue for a few decades, were all semblance of competition has been removed.

Dont have to ask a teacher, I am one. The curriculum is largely ok except for the fact that politicians insist on sticking their dumbarses in it, the culture is stuffed but it is in no way related to female teachers. Some of the best I have worked with are female but I agree, (Sweet Mary, mother of God, I agree with Renato), the best learning environments involve competition and risk taking, both of which have been effectively killed off by the nanny state. The concept of failure is not acceptable and nobody repeats because it'll hurt their feelings. I'd suggest being unemployable hurts a lot more!!

Originally Posted by Renato1

With Western culture, values and traditions constantly under attack from within, barring a turnaround, other cultures will advance using the techniques first devised by the West.

That boat sailed in 1974.

[doppler (Rick)]

The animal kingdom is evolving and getting stronger, "survival of the fittest", The human species looks after an nurtures the sick and weak so its gene pool is always getting weaker. Basic biology, its only medical science that is saving us.

[GeoffW1 (Geoff)]

Hi,

I reckon the number of dill-brains and bogans per head of population is the same as it has been for millennia.

Maybe I should add "in the first 20 years of life" as evolutionary processes would have been harsher and more selective when life expectancy was shorter.

I think that if we were able to examine it more closely we'd find that back then there were really good Pharaohs and the Pharaoh equivalent of Dubya Bush or Tony Abbott (ducks for cover )

So what does all that mean? We haven't finished evolving as our increase in height over the last 150 yrs shows. So I don't think the top human has appeared yet, unless it is moi.

Cheers

[clive milne]

Originally Posted by doppler

The human species looks after an nurtures the sick and weak so its gene pool is always getting weaker.

Society is structured in such a way that preferential treatment is given to the wealthy. It is also structured in such a way as to enable some particularly unsavory individuals to rise to positions of wealth by virtue of bad behavior typical of people suffering from serious personality disorders.

[noeyedeer (Matt)]

I have to agree about the next generation ...I have 9 nieces and nephews between the ages of 1 and 14 and they cannot add up, multiply, read a book, sit still for 5 minutes, go outside etc etc .. yet when something happens they're crying like babies even when one of their friends plays with another friend (that's the rare occasion they do go outside).

I see a lack of human, social skills let alone educational skills .. and I think it falls back to the parents and technology, not the schooling system. it's easy to make a baby, but not so easy to teach it skills like self respect and respect for each other and the world.

like turning off a light .. wasting food .. etc. I tell them, if I win the lottery you will be going to Africa, and see how other kids live and maybe they will appreciate what they have.

lets hope it's the beginning of the end for humanity because animals are smarter then us by a long shot.

matt

oh I forgot they can't even write or spell. another edit, and a lack of discipline!

[noeyedeer (Matt)]

Originally Posted by clive milne

Society is structured in such a way that preferential treatment is given to the wealthy. It is also structured in such a way as to enable some particularly unsavory individuals to rise to their positions of wealth by virtue of their serious personality disorders.

yeah like my boss at work.

[rat156]

Originally Posted by el_draco

Snip

2/Hardly anyone knows basic mathematics and the grasp of written language is failing.

3/ Most people cant maintain concentration beyond a 30 second video/sound grab.

[IRONY]

can't

[/IRONY]

Originally Posted by leon

Technology has, and is changing us, and yes, some people cant give change out of 2 dollars without a calculator.

ditto

Cheers
Stuart