If Russia did it, or Russian sympathisers did it, what do they achieve except condemnation and retaliation? If a mistake, then, albeit horrific, it is a mistake, perpetrated in a war zone. This entails the Russian sympathisers have access to the SAM systems, not the shoulder launched "Stinger" class, as they simply do not have the range.
If the Ukraine did it, claiming the Russians did it, they gain condemnation against the Russians and potential support from the west. A hopelessly pathetic short-sighted way to gain attention, and one that will inevitably back fire on them.
Will the US start retaliatory actions? I sincerely doubt it. US has NOTHING material to gain from Ukraine - a bankrupt, now-resource poor country, and we all know the US is far from humanitarian- they always need SOMETHING, so what do they get? They get airbases, military infrastructure right next door to Russia, in central Europe. They've lost Turkey, Germany and a bunch of other countries, and The World Police need a staging ground.
And what does the Ukraine get in return? Money, protection... everything it is short of.
Don't worry, the UN will write a very stern letter.
The prime focus should be recovery of the bodies on behalf of the relatives and a demand for the return of the Black Box recorder untampered.
Oh yeah, MOSSAD would seek vengeance, no matter how long it took.
I can guarantee if it was an Aeroflot flight, no one would give a rats, even if it was carrying US and Australian citizens. That'd just be swept up as a mistake.
I see the Idiot Box media have already destroyed all credibility in a fair investigation, already painting the Russians as guilty. Typical.
Didn't you get the memo H - Russians are the new American "Arab". The Bush's had the Muslims, now the Obama Administration is fighting the Russians again...
Give the media time. They'll get paid to tell us the whole untruth as they want us to believe it. Just reading some of the comments on the news sites makes me lose faith in the intelligence of people any more - sheeple indeed.
In the end it is the nature of man. They know not what they do or why at the deepest level. Perhaps a verse of a song I wrote tells a truth:
"Deep in the psyche wars are brewing,
Seeds of destruction, man kinds ruin,
Machines of hell are all in place
On land and sea and in outer space,
Aimed at humanity, defining its insanity
But all's quiet on the Western front
All's quiet on the Western front...
But my God it is all so awful.
Putin has the blood of 295 innocents on his hands.
Whether directly or indirectly involved, this latest act is a direct result of his desire to foment the separatists in Eastern Ukraine and hence destabilise it so he can get it back to mother Russia.
If he didnt take back the Crimea and then tacitly support the current separatists, this wouldnt have happened.
Gday Lewis
Whether directly or indirectly involved, this latest act is a direct result of his desire to foment the separatists in Eastern Ukraine and hence destabilise it so he can get it back to mother Russia.
If he didnt take back the Crimea and then tacitly support the current separatists, this wouldnt have happened.
Andrew
Alas, its not that simple I think. Remember, Russia peacefully gave up control of the Western "buffer zone" countries. They were there to block any future Western European dicktator, like Adolf and Napoleon for example, from murdering tens of millions of Russians in the future.
Soon as Russians left this area, Nato and the Eurozone just waltzed right in and started knocking on the Russian door. Cant blame the Russians for being a bit touchy about that, given recent history. Remember, the Russians lost more people at the hands of that despicable crout than everyone else put together!
I suspect that what this whole incident represents, at a basic level anyhow, is some dumb, bogan type having a weapon and deciding to fire it at whatever is in range.. you know, "duck season".
After 3 planes had been shot down in the past month, ya also gotta ask the question: Der, is it smart to fly big fat jets over a war zone where planes are getting shot down with SAM's? It was bound to happen.
Just a complete tragedy and I am pretty sure that Putin is royally pissed off about it. Certainly does not assist his ambitions in any way shape or form.
Soon as Russians left this area, Nato and the Eurozone just waltzed right in and started knocking on the Russian door.
And if the door gets moved east or west a few KM, there will still be someone on each side ( who still dont trust each other ), so no change in the status quo.
Moving the "doors" is supposed to be done by diplomats and bribery these days, not guns. Its just a good old fashioned land grab.
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I am pretty sure that Putin is royally pissed off about it.
He may well be, but thats not the point.
The current scenario appears to be a result of his ambitions, and hence he has to be held responsible for the "bogans" he has supplied support and weapons to, then lost control of.
The history of Crimea is also conveniently ignored or forgotten. How many recall that Soviet President Khrushev gave Crimea to Ukraine SFSR? How many recall that Crimea was self-governing from 1992 (though declared to remain a part of Ukraine). Who recalls that Ukraine intervened in Crimean politics in 1994 and changed their constitution, and renamed the region, also ousting ELECTED politicians (pro-Russian)? (no one in the west had a hissy fit about that). How many recall that there were calls for rejoining Russia from within Crimea as soon as Ukraine showed signs of complete bankruptcy and instability? Crimea decided to cede from Ukraine after the sacking of the Ukraine government and civil war broke out. On March 17, 2014 Crimea asked to rejoin the Russian Federation. The next day, the Russian Federation agreed.
So now Putin FORCED his way into Crimea? I'd say walked in with a handshake. But we don't want to legitimise this, apparently.
Given there have been tensions over the Crimea since it's gift to Ukraine in 1954, it is hardly a new area of conflict! And Russia has held military establishments on a "lease" program with Crimea and Ukraine since 1997 - Sevastopol Black Sea Fleet in particular.
MH71 was a MISTAKE. By whom, we shall have to wait and see. I sincerely would NOT put it past the Ukrainians for staging the whole entire thing - all those radio/phone calls intercepted seem mighty suspicious and convenient!
He may well be, but thats not the point.
The current scenario appears to be a result of his ambitions, and hence he has to be held responsible for the "bogans" he has supplied support and weapons to, then lost control of.
Sorry, and you have proof where that the Russians gave/supported the rebels in this? I am sure the world would like to see the proof.
As has been already mentioned in news releases, the SAM system could very well have been stolen from the Ukrainians. Which would put NIL onus on the Russians. There are several rebel factions, not all of them answerable to Moscow.
Ukraine has the BUK SAM system. So does Russia. Prove who was the "donor".
If we go back in time, anything can be blamed on anything.
The world is supposed to be getting past that sort of stuff.
And if Russia took back the Crimea from Ukraine "because the people wanted it", maybe they should give Chechnya back to those who want it???.
Anyway, it will never be solved by us.
