Sentient life elsewhere in the Milky Way

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by Eden

I'm interested to hear what the general consensus is among forum members regarding the likelihood of sentient life elsewhere in the Milky Way

I would dispute the existence of sentient life on this planet... "Humanity" acts more like a virus.

[graham.hobart (Graham stevens)]

A fleet of fuel depleted star ships enters earth orbit and descends inexorably towards the Antipodes.
A lone sheriff stands astride the Sydney Harbour Bridge shouting " stop the boats! We stopped the boats oooo errrr!"
Seriously , apart from thermophilic bacteria or extreme cold pressure vacuum loving bugs, in my mind Hawking hit the nail on the tyre by using the example of Captain Cook vs the South Pacific islanders. Faced with a vastly superior technological race ( assumption holds if you cruise between stars), they got beads, influenza, syphilis and exploitation, Cook ( before he was murdered) to be far was apparently a decent man, as was Banks?, but they opened up half the world to speculators, venereal priests and psychotic mostly pommie governors.
Not a good start.
If they cruise from Rigel to here, they are not on a peace mission my friends.
The mote in gods eye/ foot fall/ the forge of god- all good fiction to whet your drake addled brain pans.
All we can do is throw faeces!!!!! (Again)

[Andy01 (Andy)]

"It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination."
Douglas Adams

One can also philosophically argue from a Christian viewpoint that we're lucky to be here at all as God made us in His image, on one tiny planet in the vast Cosmos.

To quote the late great Carl Sagan,
"The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand.

It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known."

It's my personal philosophy, as an amateur astronomer, Astrophotographer and born again Christian that we're bloody lucky to still be here as a race. That we havn't destroyed ourselves or been destroyed, that we can look through our telescopes and see wonders and ask "Why are we here" and "Are we alone" is the purpose of life. Not to answer "42" but to consider "Why were all those stars created?" and is it just some kind if test for us as a race?

It's like God's saying "Right there you go, now you've seen what I've made, what are you going to do about it to advance yourselves as a race? " kind of question.

We've seen soooo many visions and insights from Hollywood and Sci-fi novelists about what could or might be, and many religions have their own position about what is or is not, but for for me.. to paraphrase Douglas Adams again, "If we were the only form of life it would be an awful waste of space".

ie: it seems highly improbable that we're alone here.

Cheers
Andy

[KenGee (Kenith Gee)]

Gee must be something in the water in Tassie! I knew you guys had low self-esteem but that is silly.

[xelasnave]

Simple answer rather than make up stories is we dont know not only simple but honest. Why are those words so difficult to utter. We can speculate on probabilities but we dont know but using religious texts or Hollywood mpvies ad authoriy is never going to work.

[astroron (Ron)]

Originally Posted by KenGee

Gee must be something in the water in Tassie! I knew you guys had low self-esteem but that is silly.

I have to agree Ken, I am so fed up with the Crap saying "There is no intelligent life here on Earth,
Just look at the marvelous things the human race has achieved over the last few million years.
That we are also stuffing things up as well is what life is all about,we are really just a young species and I am sure in the future we will get things right to a big degree or die out in trying.
Cheers

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by astroron

I have to agree Ken, I am so fed up with the Crap saying "There is no intelligent life here on Earth,
Just look at the marvelous things the human race has achieved over the last few million years.
That we are also stuffing things up as well is what life is all about,we are really just a young species and I am sure in the future we will get things right to a big degree or die out in trying.
Cheers

We've learned to control and change many things - just not ourselves. Can we do so in time? I'd like to hope so but one has to admit there is a lot happening in the world that suggests we won't.

[xelasnave]

I also agree. A bit of a side step a discussion a week ago we considered how much general inteligence could be raised and the effects. Say IQ doubled or trippled hpw would that translate. Greater productivity could be expected however wpuld we becpme more civilized given our fall back to esentially animal tesponce in a crisis or matters of the heart. Conclusions presented were IQ would be no improvement unless somehow animal responce could be eliminated. I have observed irrational behaviour in inteligent folk..rage or anger making or taking high intelligence out of the mix. Again sorry for errors and i hope my ppint can be understood. Alex

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by KenGee

Gee must be something in the water in Tassie! I knew you guys had low self-esteem but that is silly.

On the contrary, I get to see lots of Tassie and I have no issue with self-esteem. Its also about the only place I know where I can stick my face in a stream and drink without getting giardia; tastes great mate

The questions that jump to mind repeatedly whilst I am enjoying the environment our "leaders" are so intent on destroying are:

What kind of a species would seek to destroy what I see for short term gain?

Answer, Virus

What life form grows exponentially until it destroys its "host"?

Answer: Virus

What does "humanity" most closely resemble?

Answer: Virus

Self evident truth IMHO...

[xelasnave]

This is a science forum and if you make claims that humans are indeed virus it would be reasonable that you answer this question. Can you present reference to a scientific body of work or a scientific theory in support of the proposition you suggest. Alex

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

This is a science forum and if you make claims that humans are indeed virus it would be reasonable that you answer this question. Can you present reference to a scientific body of work or a scientific theory in support of the proposition you suggest. Alex

It is indeed a scientific forum. However, I was offering a personal opinion based on the observation of similar traits of two different life forms, nothing more. Based on these observations, and the likely ultimate outcome, the observation is worth making... and the water does taste great!

Rom

[xelasnave]

Rom I got a kilometer frontage to the Timbara River at back of my place and I know how you feel. It is unpoluted except they did put in a cyanide tailing dam up river which was safe until it overflowed but who would have called that in an area with rain fall like a tropical jungle..er it is semi rain forest but well it could not cause too much damage could it..
Science is science like law or religeon certain things must be recognised.. We need a philosophy forum really. And dont worry about the planet it will still be here after man has left. Extinction is the rule and i could support that with little egfort alex

[KenGee (Kenith Gee)]

Rom all populations are held in check by food and predation. think of mouse plagues or locus.
our science has allowed us to free ourselves of many of the problems that have plagued us in the past. Perhaps you would like us to step back?

oh btw the water in my area is just fine.

[xelasnave]

And Rom check out "scientific theory" on say wiki. The term has a specificmeaning such that it is more in line with the laymans term ...fact.. It is not a notion or idea which may or may not be sound reasonable a scientific theory is for practocal purpose a scientific fact. You dont say I have a theory you can say you have an idea. Anyways in my view one must grasp this small and impprtant aspect to consider or talk science. It was not so long ago that water was a dubipus commodoty..science made it safe..The simple concept of boilinh wayer is science protecting us from the nasties that can be found in what wpuld appear clean water. Infant mortality dropped with the introduction of tea in England causr kids got to drink purifoed water.. They drank ale and wine cause it did not kill ypu like water.

[speach (Simon)]

Of course there is. The universe is a rather large place and to think we are the only ones is Narcissistic.

[doppler (Rick)]

Is the universe large or are we very small ?

[xelasnave]

It is all relative..at least that is our best scientific model theory. I have Hubble deep field photo on my fone and enjoy showing folk the number of gallaxies a grain of sand at arms lenght hides from view presumably no matter what part of the sky you try to cover. It has a strange effect claming I suspect if any comprehend their so small yet so important.Alex

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by KenGee

Rom all populations are held in check by food and predation. think of mouse plagues or locus.
our science has allowed us to free ourselves of many of the problems that have plagued us in the past. Perhaps you would like us to step back?

oh btw the water in my area is just fine.

Alas, WE wont get a say in the matter. Watch this and breathe deep.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/arith...nergy-lecture/

In short, this is why we are screwed and its coming VERY fast.

Science has not in any way shape or form freed us from the realities of over population, it has merely delayed the inevitable and, in doing so, will make the inevitable correction horrific. Think Wildfire...

Rom

[xelasnave]

Science is a tool used by humans it is not the problem..follow the money to find the real problem and dont waste time attacking windmills but the miller if you must.. Sorry Kenny I look forward to your responce but you know me there are things i cant keep to myself. Sorry for jumping the que line. Totally your call.

[xelasnave]

I am surprised i am still on air and until a recharge this must be the last post. I call for and will initate a thread to outline the basics for science..the meaning of theory and why we use the best model to date..on a personal level I find the big bang unacceptable but recognise it is our best model it is working so if you disagree present a better theory the gives better pridictions. I was and probably still the resident crackpot here but at least have taken the time to read the rules. There is nothing wrong with our science it is amazing it works so well but it does because it limits folks the facts and predicyion that works humans are revied their work tested and happily many papers are shown t have fraud etc but that is a gd thing it shows the best will survive and fraud found out. Could it be better maybe but then all you do is show how to make it better seriously a new system and how it is better.. Critism without a new model is useless i.Dam this kyboard but please take the time to understand what science is find out how it works find out what it promises and what it dors not promise..it does not offer truth it offers the best model we have at the moment that has best tested and can be used to predict an outcome..it sort simply yet it so simple