another scope shop closing

[raymo]

B.T.O.W. certainly had a website with products and prices, and
advertised in S and T for several years, and was listed as a dealer
in the blanket Skywatcher adverts. He stopped when he found that
he got almost no interstate sales due to freight costs. Just good money
down the drain.
raymo

[mr bruess]

Sad to hear BTOW is closing.
Australia has got a small population compared to a market like the US.
Astronomy is also taught in Schools there unlike Australia.
That's why all astronomy textbooks are American.

[brian nordstrom (As avatar)]

Hear , Hear .
I moved from Darwin at the end of last year and went to meet Keith and see the shop BOTW , and personally I was very impressed with Keith and the shop , small yes but well stocked with good gear .

I spent 3 hours the first time there talking scopes , bikes and other things with Keith and in that time he sold 2 eyepieces , replaced a spotting scope ( no questions asked ) and sold an 8 inch collapsable Dob and the time Keith took to ensure the buyer and his son were OK before leaving was great to see , he even offered to come around to the new 8 inch owners place to help in setting it up , 4 happy customers in 3 hours .

Its a sad day for Perth , sorry to say .

Brian.

Originally Posted by raymo

I would like to add some detail to The B.T.O.W. story, so that people
don't come to wrong conclusions about Keith and the company. I hope
my memory is accurate, and that Keith will forgive any small errors I
may make.
York Optical had a Perth branch which they closed some 20+ yrs.
ago. Keith, and if I remember rightly, another employee, took over
the task of supplying astro gear. They had a good size shop, well stocked
with some 25-30 scopes up to 11" SCTs and 6" refs and Maks. All seemed to be going o.k. They were burgled and lost a lot of stock. The
insurance co. demanded that they bar the shop windows, which as I
recall, the local authorities vetoed on the grounds that it would lower the tone of the area. Too risky to operate without insurance, so moved to the only place he could find. I continued to buy from him until the end, and always got great service. The shop was open 4 1/2 days per week as Keith had another business, astro not being enough to consistently
supply a living I presume. Camera shops in and around Perth began to
sell scopes, along with Geographic shops, which ate into his income.
When he was bought out by a competitor a while back, I think it
signalled the end was nigh. I am guessing that he was severely
constrained in what he ordered or stocked by the new owners.
I want to stress that I did not know him socially, only as a long
time customer. He was very knowledgeable and helpful; gave free
lessons to all scope buyers. I will miss being able to call him with
my latest problem or purchasing need. Good luck Keith.
raymo

[astroron (Ron)]

I first met Keith when he had the shop in Mt Lawley I think it was?
Not being from Perth, Iam not sure now.
I found him a great guy to talk too,He had to relocate as has been said here because of Council and Insurance pressure.

Moving out to Malaga was maybe a bit of a bum move,being so far out
Ron from Sirius optics in Brisbane Keith and I had a good chat on the phone one time when I visited him at Malaga, fun time.
I have called into see him very time I have been in Perth over the last few years, I will miss not calling in when I am there in the future.
He was a careing guy and I wish him well in what ever he does in the future
Cheers

[brian nordstrom (As avatar)]

Thanks Ron , I found Keith to be a very friendly guy , big in stature and heart , knowlegable and helpful , I to wish him all the best for the future as well ,,, whatever life throws at him .
( Hope its astro stuff ,,, not bikes .)
Brian.

[astroron (Ron)]

Originally Posted by brian nordstrom

Thanks Ron , I found Keith to be a very friendly guy , big in stature and heart , knowlegable and helpful , I to wish him all the best for the future as well ,,, whatever life throws at him .
( Hope its astro stuff ,,, not bikes .)
Brian.

Cheers Brian

[saturn (Peter)]

I too am sad to hear this news. Bought a skywatcher heritage 130 from BTow a year ago to use as a grab&go when visiting my sister in Perth. Good price too.

Even sadder that the closure is just a few weeks before Astrofest at Curtin uni. Keith and BTOW had a good presence at last years'.

[bobson (Bob)]

Gerry Gibbs Camera House in Cannington bought BTOW some time ago. They decided to close business down.

bob

[brian nordstrom (As avatar)]

Buisness as usual ?
Hope they pay dearly for this descision , I personally wont shop there .
Brian.

Originally Posted by bobson

Gerry Gibbs Camera House in Cannington bought BTOW some time ago. They decided to close business down.

bob

[Chris85 (Chris)]

Originally Posted by brian nordstrom

Buisness as usual ?
Hope they pay dearly for this descision , I personally wont shop there .
Brian.

From what I hear there's some dodgy things going on at old Gerry's. He owes Tasco $100k+, yet there wouldn't be 40k worth of stock in BTOW's warehouse...

Either way it's a sad day. I bought 3 of my last 4 telescopes from Keith, never had a problem with his service. One time he convinced me to buy a cheaper, smaller telescope because he could see I was an Astro noob, which to this day I'm thankful for because in hindsight it was the correct decision.

Cheers!
Chris

[brian nordstrom (As avatar)]

PM'd
Brian.

Originally Posted by Chris85

From what I hear there's some dodgy things going on at old Gerry's. He owes Tasco $100k+, yet there wouldn't be 40k worth of stock in BTOW's warehouse...

Either way it's a sad day. I bought 3 of my last 4 telescopes from Keith, never had a problem with his service. One time he convinced me to buy a cheaper, smaller telescope because he could see I was an Astro noob, which to this day I'm thankful for because in hindsight it was the correct decision.

Cheers!
Chris

[raymo]

I'm so glad to see other people expressing their gratitude to Keith. Yes
Ron, it was Mt Lawley, just along from the top end of Oxford St. Malaga
was the only place where the rent was affordable. Coincidentally, I
brought 3 of my last 4 scopes from him. I bought a used HEQ5 [ not from him] which
didn't have the hand controller update cable. I asked if he could get me one and he sent me one free of charge, and did the same thing when the hand controller cable packed up. That's what I call service.
raymo

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by Marios

Just another victim of globalisation and a free market, free to pillage the little guy half way around the world.

Marios, I think you forget that if it wasn't for this "globalisation and free market" we would not have such a great variety of astro gear for that matter, and indeed, any other great gear, and at the prices we do, so I fail to see how they are "pillaging", as you put it, when we, as individuals are getting real value for money. For example, my Williams Optic 110 is such a beautiful scope, that cost under $2,500 (with freight, taxes and an addition free field flattener bonus), that ten years ago, I would never have ever dreamed of being able to afford such aperture in an apochromat, let alone a flourite. In Australia, this scope was another $600, plus freight to WA. The extra $600 I would have to pay, plus the freight to WA, put it out of the range I could afford, or at least justify, so I bought it direct from Williams. Why wouldn't I? After all, they offered a free field flattener bonus that the Australia dealer didn't.

And yes, it is sad that businesses in Australia cannot compete on price and availability, due to our small market. Things are in constant change Marios, and that is the reality that Australian businesses must deal with. Innovation is the key, but that is harder than it seems. However, some companies in Australia are doing that and succeeding. Australia, because of its high standard of living, is an expensive country in which to do business, for many reasons, the 'economy of scale' being the biggest reason; our market is just too small. You cannot have it both ways.

And, it is clear that the Internet and online business is changing the way retail is conducted. In fact, I have bought some amazing stuff that I simply would never have known even existed, if hadn't been for the Internet. Anyway, it is all well and good having bricks and mortar stores, but if those stores cannot compete on price, they must offer much more. I had a major astro store that was a primary supplier, but they simply failed to respect my business, so since I cannot get something of 'added value', price has become my only consideration.

Bottom line, it is a 'global economy' now, as information is much more easily disseminated, negating the need for a bricks and mortar store, to find information and see the product. In fact, I rarely visit any store now, and mostly buy on line. It is certainly more convenient, and I don't have to worry about driving through traffic and pay exorbitant prices for parking, let alone the outrageous parking fines, if you happen to take a bit longer. And the City of Perth is hot on issuing parking fines, and they are constantly installing new technology so that they can issue even more fines. In some places, they have a device embedded in the road that sends a signal to a parking inspector to tell them you have over stayed.

Yes Marios, it is sad to see businesses go, but then, it isn't a right that I have to deal with them, and make them rich. It is a privilege that I do, and if they can't give me something extra, I will make myself better off, by not spending any more than I need to. And that isn't being selfish either, but rather being prudent with my finances, as I am not rich.

Cheers Pete

[badabing82]

It was mt hawthorn scarb beach road where australia fine china is now. The council wouldn't allow them to have either bars OR roller shutters. Typical town of vincent but that's another subject. Shame to see them go!

[astroron (Ron)]

Originally Posted by badabing82

It was mt hawthorn scarb beach road where australia fine china is now. The council wouldn't allow them to have either bars OR roller shutters. Typical town of vincent but that's another subject. Shame to see them go!

I was tossing up as to which it was and plumped for Mt Lawley
I have only been to the old shop at Mt Hawthorne once and that was about 10 years ago I think.
I suppose life just goes on and we just have to grin and bare it.
Cheers

[raymo]

Whoops, my mistake, wrong Mount.
raymo

[Varangian (John)]

Originally Posted by Oggie

Unfortunately, stores like Bintel aren't the greatest for Perth residents that wish to purchase large items like telescopes. The freight is a killer.

I believe there are scope shops on the East Coast that freight large items for free and the price points on their products are excellent. I don't work for any of them.

[14cge (Roy)]

Originally Posted by Varangian

I believe there are scope shops on the East Coast that freight large items for free and the price points on their products are excellent. I don't work for any of them.

Some may not charge, specially on east coast, but when people find out its WA, freight does come in to it more often than not. Over the years I have bought from all over the world & taken the risk for warranty. I am one of the lucky ones that is happy to play with equipment, but those that aren't mechanically/electrically skilled would like someone local to go to, for even the simplest thing. If something goes wrong, it's very expensive to send back and get back!

[raymo]

Went into a branch of Camera House [the mob that bought out B.T.O.W.]
today to ask about a Skywatcher electric focuser, and the young guy said
" what's that?". Nuff said. On the way out I had a look at the EP stock
and saw the 20mm version of the 2" 80 degree 30mm EP that I bought from Andrews a while back. Mine has a chrome barrel, but theirs has a
silver painted one. Mine was $ 89, theirs is $299. It looked to be from
the same family of EP's . Eastern states retailers here I come,[and the
internet of course].
raymo

[Stardrifter_WA]

It is my understanding that Camera House Cannington is going to stock the items that BTOW stocked. It was CH Cannington that bought out BTOW anyway. When picking up my Canon 24-70 f/2.8 L lens recently from CH Cannington the guy that served me wanted to know if I was interested in 2" eyepieces, as they will be stocking them soon. Given that all my eyepieces are Televue, I said no, of course. But then, I am looking for one good planetary eyepiece though.

So, given what I was told, anything Skywatcher/Celestron may be available from CH in Cannington.

To really be involved in selling telescopes, you do need a "bread and butter" line, as there is just too small a market, and margins, for selling telescopes and accessories alone. Although I used to be involved in business in this area, a long time ago now, telescopes was never the main business focus, but only part of a larger optical equipment and science business.

I know I would never open a telescope shop, as it would be a sharp lesson in how to go broke quickly.

Working in retail sucks anyway! Working long hours and weekends isn't my idea of a good work/life balance.

Cheers Pete