The Last Telescope You'll Ever Buy

[Profiler (Profiler)]

Although I don't have a NP-127is myself I believe the big draw card of this range in terms of the 'one scope that does it all' factor is their capability to do both widefield whilst also nice and flat as well as also being able to do the long FL stuff and good for visual and good for AP too boot. My understanding most scopes are really good and designed towards one specialised end or the other.

There isn't too much material written on the 127is but if you scale down to its smaller brother (or sister) the NP-101is they tend to garner considerable praise from all the reviews etc for this one-stop-shop-does-it-all capability.

Naturally, all of this comes at a hefty price

[gregbradley]

Ah yes a man after my own heart. I have had/own several fine refractors.

Are you wanting to image or for visual as that would influence things somewhat.

I have a TEC180 fluorite, an AP140 and a TEC110 fluorite for widefield imaging.

I have had a Tak FS152 at one point.

$10,000 is for sure plenty to get a nice APO.

If its for imaging then the order of quality in my opinion is:
TEC180 or TEC160FL
Tak TOA150
AP155
AP140
TEC140
Tak TOA130
AP130 gran tourismo
FSQ106ED/TEC110/ perhaps APtraveller.

Televue NP127i would be nice as well for wide field and its like a 127mm FSQ.

Tak scopes have an excellent range of accessories from flatteners, high quality reducers, extenders. I saw a TOA150 recently on Astromart for about US$7500 or so. They seem to have come down in price a bit. AP155 seems to have gone up a bit as they are sometimes now about US$10,500 or even more. They used to be about $9500. AP140's I saw one on Astromart again recently for around US$8500I think it was. TEC140's are often under US$5000 - more like US$4500 so they represent best bang for your buck. Yuri makes this scope as his bread and butter production and he recently finished his 600th one of these.

My choice for imaging would be TOA150. For visual I don't know. It may be good as well. I believe TOA scopes are front heavy. I am not sure about cooldown time with the widely spaced objective. They are also relatively heavy.

ED doublets I would be wary of as to call a doublet an APO is marketing BS. APO by definition almost certainly requires a triplet to achieve. APO means 3 colours come to focus within the same focal length within a tight margin of error. Astrophysics actually specify that error for their scopes.

For imaging my AP140 is somewhat widefield but tends to produce the best images from my scopes (judging by others' responses to my images using it).

The TEC180 is pretty hot for visual at 1260mm focal length and over 7 inch aperture. Its also getting pretty large. I had it on a Tak NJP mount for several years and it looked oversized for that mount. It should look good on a PMX mount or EQ8.

For 90% of imaging needs a TEC140 would do very nicely. I believe its also a very nice visual scope.

My Tak FS152 was a great visual scope with superb contrast and colour. It gave me some of the best visual views ever. But for imaging again you hit the doublet not quite a proper APO barrier (slight false colour or blue halos around bright stars chromatic aberration).

If you want to get a mount as well as a scope in that $10K then TEC140 seems the standout. Great for both visual and imaging and 5.5 inch refractor is close to the 6 inch refractor you specified and an EQ8 or something (I don't know anything about the EQ8).

Greg.

Greg.

[Astro_Bot]

I agree trying to do everything with one 'scope is too hard. My opinion, FWIW: one mount, two OTAs. Which mount and which OTAs will depend on how you emphasise visual vs. imaging.

[gregbradley]

Some examples of recent listings for the scopes mentioned:

http://www.astromart.com/classifieds...fied_id=838871
http://www.astromart.com/classifieds...fied_id=839314
http://www.astromart.com/classifieds...fied_id=838577
http://www.astromart.com/classifieds...fied_id=788296
http://www.astromart.com/classifieds...fied_id=785427


Also there is an AP130 Gran Tourismo on auction at astromart.com right now and bids are up to $7000 currently. They usually sell for around $7000 or less so that is right up near the top range now.

Greg.

[el_draco (Rom)]

This thread seems to be getting a bit off topic.

[The Mekon (John Briggs)]

Originally Posted by el_draco

This thread seems to be getting a bit off topic.

Not so. The OP wanted thoughts on a "last telescope you will buy" - and thence keep, one would assume until your heirs sell it. He also specified a $10k budget. Most of the recent posts have been right on this line, and perhaps noting that for most of us we may need a few more $ for our "last scope"
I have found this thread very interesting!

[UniPol]

"The last telescope you'll ever buy" has rather morbid overtones

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by The Mekon

Not so. The OP wanted thoughts on a "last telescope you will buy" - and thence keep, one would assume until your heirs sell it. He also specified a $10k budget. Most of the recent posts have been right on this line, and perhaps noting that for most of us we may need a few more $ for our "last scope"
I have found this thread very interesting!

Perhaps, but the OTA's mentioned are all at the limit of budget I suspect. Its an interesting idea, last scope and I guess you have to decide is it an OTA or full rig. A $9k Tak 150 is gonna be damn hard to use as a spyglass

A number of people have asked the obvious, purpose, long term goals and portability constraints etc and this info is useful in narrowing the field of candidates.

A true last scope in my opinion, is the one that works the way you want it too and there isn't a magic formula because there are scopes that excel in one area and are not so good in another and boy, have I tried em all!!

Hence, my contention, "mount is king". A good OTA on a bad mount is disappointing but a bad OTA on a good mount, you can do something with. You can build a great newt, you can't build an MX or a ME II so I'll always put that first. $10k disappears fast in this hobby so trading up over time is way to soften the blow a bit.

2cW

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by el_draco

Hence, my contention, "mount is king". A good OTA on a bad mount is disappointing but a bad OTA on a good mount, you can do something with. You can build a great newt, you can't build an MX or a ME II so I'll always put that first. $10k disappears fast in this hobby so trading up over time is way to soften the blow a bit.

2cW

I am inclined to agree. It is all a compromise really. Why not look at the Explore Scientific 5" for around $2,800, from Extravision in Queensland (currently in stock) which would leave you enough for a decent mount.

Alternatively, as Flash suggested, you could look at the Vixen NA 140, and look at a reasonable mount.

[Profiler (Profiler)]

While in theory the notion of mount is king I think a good part of it depends on what you intend to do.

[Kunama]

Originally Posted by Profiler

While in theory the notion of mount is king I think a good part of it depends on what you intend to do.

Quite right Richard,
I think it should really read: " For astrophotography mount is King "
For visual my $$$ vote would go for 2/3 OTA , 1/3 Mount.
Some of my most memorable views have been with nice OTAs mounted on bits of plywood screwed together, rotating on a "Lazy Susan".

[gregbradley]

I went through a process of continual upgrade early on in astrophotography. Its a very expensive process. You buy something that isn't quite what you wanted. You use it for a while then you end up wanting the one you wanted orginally but backed off from.
You upgrade to something not quite what you want but better than what you had. You repeat this a few times. Now you have lost several thousand dollars in the upgrade process. Generally the top scopes hold their value really well. Some, like AP scopes, often sell for more than what they cost originally.

So whilst I understand budget constraints and mounts and accessories its a bit like a house. If you get the best basic house that can be improved over time that is better than getting a lesser but fully decked out house now.

So an AP140/155 or a TEC140/160 (there was a TEC160ED that was discontinued that would be great bang for your buck as it was always cheap for a 6 inch APO) is one that you are unlikely to sell in the future because you want some other 6 inch scope.

I can't see Tak coming out with a new 6 inch APO that makes the TOA150 redundant. Unless there is a specific market rejection of that particular model. An argument could be made that scopes like these are so close to perfect there is no significant room for improvement.

So 10 years from now its likely to be a classic scope like the AP155 is even though they are now quite an old scope.

The big question is whether he needs a mount in that budget or whether he wants to do imaging. Visual only just requires a 2.7 inch focuser which makes some of these cheaper. Imaging iwth large chips requires 3.5 to 4 inch focusers and adds to the cost. A good mount is less important for visual. I mounted a Tak FS152 on a Vixen Sphinx for visual. Way overloaded but good enough for visual.Impossible for imaging.

Also whilst its true one scope usually is not perfect for all things, a 6 inch APO refractor with a range of quality accessories is probably the design that best comes close to being the best at all things. TOA150 is a good example. Have a look at the wide range of types of images Marcus Davies has gotten out of his TOA150. Widefield at F5.4, long focal length at around F13, native at around F7.5. Very versatile from widefield nebula images to the brighter galaxies. Plus I am sure its outstanding as a visual scope although getting a bit heavy for portability.

Greg.

[SkyWatch (Dean)]

Given the $10,000 constraint, unless you can pick up the ES ED152 (which is going for $US6000 at present in the States), what about the TSA120? I know it is not a 6", but (nearly) 5" isn't bad(!), and you can get it with an EQ8 for well under $10,000.

In fact, because of its size you could get an EQ6 or a Losmandy G8G and have lots left over for eyepieces, field flattener if you want to do ap, etc.: or even a Losmandy G11G...

A few people have suggested the TEC 140. I spent a few nights with one some time back, and while it is a very nice scope I certainly wasn't tempted to make the jump up compared to my TSA 102...

Another option, coming completely out of left field, may be the Long Perng ED APO 126 triplet ($3300 at Andrews), or even their new ED APO 150mm f/6.7 triplet- although that is pushing the budget. (I suspect very strongly either of these would give the Williams equivalents a big run for their money. Someone may know too, whether they come out of the same factory? Andrews even say on their site that they are comparable to the Williams...)

$10,000 to spend: what a great problem to have!

All the best,

Dean

[AG Hybrid (Adrian)]

There's a Skywatcher 18" F4.1 coming out 4Q next year - Ultra Light. That might be the scope I have for the next 10 years. Maybe a 18" F4 Hubble Optics with goto is also an option.

They both have fast cooldown sandwich mirrors. Difference is I might be able to get the Skywatcher from a local supplier. I'm not really into imaging. Might take up sketching. 18" should be enough aperture to provide a decently bright image to sketch.

[gregbradley]

What happened to the original poster? He's ignoring us. This thread is pointless without the intended use being clear. We are talking to ourselves.

Greg.

[Hans Tucker (Hans)]

Originally Posted by gregbradley

What happened to the original poster? He's ignoring us. This thread is pointless without the intended use being clear. We are talking to ourselves.

Greg.

Oh I don't know that this thread is pointless because others like myself have come away from this thread with some useful information that yourself and others have posted.

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by Hans Tucker

Oh I don't know that this thread is pointless because others like myself have come away from this thread with some useful information that yourself and others have posted.

I agree Hans, I have found it most enlightening, as I have had the same quandary, and the suggestion made have been very informative.

[Steffen]

Originally Posted by gregbradley

What happened to the original poster? He's ignoring us. This thread is pointless without the intended use being clear. We are talking to ourselves.

Being the open, accommodating community we are, we surely don't object to being milked for information by columnists, marketeers, advertisers etc?

Here's my input to this intelligence gathering exercise: the best jack-of-all-trades scope is an 8-10" Maksutov-Cassegrain on a tracking mount, sitting next to a 30" Dob. Ok, that's two scopes, but nobody seems to make 30" Maks...

Cheers
Steffen.

[MattT]

Get an Istar 6" f12 or f15 and put it on a G11. Beautiful.
Matt

[Kunama]

Originally Posted by gregbradley

What happened to the original poster? He's ignoring us. This thread is pointless without the intended use being clear. WE ARE TALKING TO OURSELVES .....

Greg.

Isn't that always the case

Now would happen if we up the budget a little, say $15K ...... no don't go there .......