I think Charles is onto something there. I might need to re read documentation re vertical mesh. One thing, if plungers are too far out - the mount slips under load - so it does have some bearing on vertical mesh, how much, I don't know. The MX worm is a lovely bit of engineering, IMHO. Ever tried gear meshing a G11? Bloody hell...
Main thing, your plungers are correct.
Re 1/4 20's, as I pull 'up' on the block, I rotate the large silver cog with my finger and check whether it's smooth, back and forth. Then I lock both sides down.
Last edited by Logieberra; 30-10-2013 at 02:09 PM.
You've been very patient. If I were you I would be sending it back for a replacement or a refund. We get this gear to image with not to tinker with for the next year.
A certain amount of tolerance is often required but the better manufacturers get it right straight out of the box. The PMX has been a disaster for SB with lots of QC problems. My one is probably one of the better ones but I still had to replace the worm and fix the cam adjustment.
You would have been better off with the new AP1100 or an older AP1200. You never hear about issues with AP gear.
SB has to be on a buyer beware status for their mounts. Just on this one small astro community here there have been at least 6 or more problem mounts over the last year. They have shown they are not in control of their quality and seem to find it acceptable that the buyer debugs/replaces parts on their brand new mount. Not even mentioning the question mark over PEC in the southern hemisphere.
Although when they do work though they are good. So its a quandary we find ourselves in there. SB obviously changed something from when they made their PME mounts. Possibly outsourcing components from China?? But whoever assembles them is clearly incompetent.
Greg.
Last edited by gregbradley; 30-10-2013 at 04:15 PM.
You've been very patient. If I were you I would be sending it back for a replacement or a refund. We get this gear to image with not to tinker with for the next year.
A certain amount of tolerance is often required but the better manufacturers get it right straight out of the box. The PMX has been a disaster for SB with lots of QC problems. My one is probably one of the better ones but I still had to replace the worm and fix the cam adjustment.
You would have been better off with the new AP1100 or an older AP1200. You never hear about issues with AP gear.
SB has to be on a buyer beware status for their mounts. Just on this one small astro community here there have been at least 6 or more problem mounts over the last year. They have shown they are not in control of their quality and seem to find it acceptable that the buyer debugs/replaces parts on their brand new mount. Not even mentioning the question mark over PEC in the southern hemisphere.
Although when they do work though they are good. So its a quandary we find ourselves in there. SB obviously changed something from when they made their PME mounts. Possibly outsourcing components from China?? But whoever assembles them is clearly incompetent.
Greg.
Hi Greg,
I certainly can relate to what you are writing, and I have found SB's customer service quite spotty at times. But I have to say that in this instance I'm not going to blame them (entirely) for this issue. The more I think about it the more I'm starting to feel that I may have caused this issue when I changed over the belts 6+ months ago. For some reason Chris's video showing worm /motor replacement leaves out the 1/4-20 adjustment that is in the pdf file from SB. Perhaps it wasn't in the pdf when he made the video. But, I suspect now that this step was critical (for me) and has resulted in months of trouble. I'm sure someone with more experience would have noticed what the problem was sooner, but I cannot blame them for my inexperience.
However, SB recommends Chris' video but doesn't mention the missing step and I followed it rather than the pdf. I think that needs fixing and I intend to bring it to their attention. And, I think some sort of trouble shooting matrix as part of the manual would be incredibly helpful. I know of another former MX user that had the exact same slew issue I have (which I've yet to confirm I've fixed), and I have seen another one on the forum at SB a while back. I think what is most annoying about customer service at SB is that there is a feeling (that I detect and feel first hand) that the end user has made the mistake and that there is nothing wrong with their product. Eventually if one is really persistant they might fix something and/or send parts out. In fact, I think they are quite generous in that respect. But, on more than a few occasions I have simply been told that I'm wrong and only later have I been proved to have been correct from the getgo.
I still believe this is a great mount and that I will eventually get there. Right now I think I am very very close to having this all figured out. Fingers crossed!
"Not even mentioning the question mark over PEC in the southern hemisphere"
I'm hoping that the upcoming automated PEC wizard will help here, scheduled for release in the next Windows daily build installer. Hopefully the Mac build isn't too far behind. Fingers crossed.
issue when I changed over the belts 6+ months ago. For some reason Chris's video showing worm /motor replacement leaves out the 1/4-20 adjustment that is in the pdf file from SB.
Peter[/QUOTE]
I am not sure what the 1/4-20 adjustment is you are referring to. Is this the threaded rod cam tightening adjustment or are you referring to the tension on the belt?
An automated PEC wizard would be handy. Kudos to SB if they get that one. PemPro is promising something similar soon.
issue when I changed over the belts 6+ months ago. For some reason Chris's video showing worm /motor replacement leaves out the 1/4-20 adjustment that is in the pdf file from SB.
Peter
I am not sure what the 1/4-20 adjustment is you are referring to. Is this the threaded rod cam tightening adjustment or are you referring to the tension on the belt?
Greg.[/QUOTE]
Greg, Have a look at Logan's post #12 on the first page of this thread. It's the 2nd picture.
I'm just now trying to see if anything has changed but clouds keep getting in the way and my camera is acting up too (naturally).
Back to square one. The adjustments that I made have not changed anything even though the RA axis feels much firmer. I verified that the plungers are correct, redid the 1/4-20 adjustments, and reset the camstop.
Results are attached.
I think I now have very limited options.
1. Pull out all the through the mount cabling.
and/or
2. swap the dec/ra worms
3. ??????????????????? (cry!)
Anybody out there willing to see if their MX mount shows a difference in tracking depending on what direction the slew was in just prior? You wouldn't necessarily need PEMpro to do this. Just collect PEC data with the camera X=RA with PEC on and Protrack off, and compare the amount of drift for 4 min.
Can you remember, when you loosened the 1/4-20 bolts, did the (not sure how to describe it) 'unit they were screwed into' (UTWSI) move? It's this movement you use to bottom the Worm gear teeth into the Worm Wheel teeth, and then tighten the bolts up. The reason I ask is that I am going through the same adjustments (just to make sure mine is adjusted properly) and on my RA assembly, the bolts were already loose but the UTWSI is unmovable! If yours is/was unmovable, you would have had virtually no effect on the teeth mesh and therefore your backlash. Do you want to give it a quick try? Loosen the 1/4-20 bolts and see if the unit can move back and forth.
Buy yourself a big box, put the mount in it, give it a bit of a kick as you put it in the box! and ship it back with a big note saying your problem not mine.
Can you remember, when you loosened the 1/4-20 bolts, did the (not sure how to describe it) 'unit they were screwed into' (UTWSI) move?
Charles
Just did it again to be sure, and short answer: Yes. The RA axis gets a lot tighter, but I'd still say not as tight as dec. But, is that just because the RA is carrying the scope and counter weight?
Anyway, I spent the morning removing the 3 cables I worked so hard to install. If it's clear I will test again but I will be very surprised if my results are any different. After that, one more test of swapping ra/dec worms...really a job I don't want to do at all.
Peter, from your recent SB post, it sounds like you're heading to the US shortly. I'd pay for excess baggage, put the MX in its original shipping box (CW shaft removed, no counterweights, no accessories etc, just the bare mount) and ship it via domestic in country to SB in Colorado. Or at least rip out the worm blocks, fly with them and save yourself some international shipping!
Let them test in house, service and return the components to you. They'll look after you, of that I'm certain
Last edited by Logieberra; 31-10-2013 at 09:35 PM.
Small negative update. Pulled all my "through the mount cables" but no relief from the drift after an East slew. Next step is to replace the worm.
Also tried adjusting the plungers (to as tight as 1.5 turns) with no positive effect.
Peter
I think you've arrived at the "box and kick solution".
You've been given a dud and you are doing their job for them even though you paid them to do it. Its not fair.
SB were quick to replace worms so I think the worm must have been the biggest area where they had trouble in QC. Of course the worm is a sensitive part of the mount adjustment-wise but I found it easy enough and it corrected a problem my mount started to exhibit.
I can see why you are perservering as its a good mount when it all goes. But I think SB rushed it out the door in the middle of a US recession and probably desparate to get some money back in to offset the cost and investment and they did not get it right.
Hopefully the latest deliveries have all this corrected. I feel they have lost a lot of their reputation built up from the excellent PME. But for all I know they also may have had a slew of issues when first released - it was before my time.
Peter, can you post a few of your images? Unguided. Prorack on. Protrack off etc. I'm interested to see the end result, Pempro graphs aside. Perhaps you've already uploaded them to another forum post? We're running similar sized gear on the MX (140/150mm glass) and you've seen what's possible, unguided with my very bulky TOA-150...
Peter, can you post a few of your images? Unguided. Prorack on. Protrack off etc. I'm interested to see the end result, Pempro graphs aside. Perhaps you've already uploaded them to another forum post? We're running similar sized gear on the MX (140/150mm glass) and you've seen what's possible, unguided with my very bulky TOA-150...
Sorry, Logan, I cannot. Just don't have any! My PEC is probably not ideal any longer since I've been messing with the worm, and the model is not current.
I will say this; sometimes I got a half way decent result with Protrack on but it was never repeatable and I think this slew issue is why not. SAme with guiding. Sometimes I will select a guide star and bang it's right dead center in the graph where you want it from the first point. Then I might slew away to focus, come back, and for several minutes all attempts to guide are impossible. The star shows up way off centre, or off the graph, because the mount is not keeping up with the star as it moves relentlessly westward during the time TSX takes to expose, dark expose, and plot.
Last night I used the jog controls while collecting PEMpro data. I would blip the mount in 1 arcsec increments. If I moved the telescope East, the plot on the PEMpro graph would move higher in a positive direction, meaning (I hope!) that the position in the positive zone of the graph represents the star drifting to the West (as expected if backlash is present). All of my PEMpro graphs show drift to the West if I slew first to the East. And when I slew West I pretty much get a straight line for 1 worm cycle.
I think you've arrived at the "box and kick solution".
You've been given a dud and you are doing their job for them even though you paid them to do it. Its not fair.
SB were quick to replace worms so I think the worm must have been the biggest area where they had trouble in QC. Of course the worm is a sensitive part of the mount adjustment-wise but I found it easy enough and it corrected a problem my mount started to exhibit.
I can see why you are perservering as its a good mount when it all goes. But I think SB rushed it out the door in the middle of a US recession and probably desparate to get some money back in to offset the cost and investment and they did not get it right.
Hopefully the latest deliveries have all this corrected. I feel they have lost a lot of their reputation built up from the excellent PME. But for all I know they also may have had a slew of issues when first released - it was before my time.
Greg.
Greg, You are right, but I don't quit. I figure I've got 12 more days to get further along this road. If I don't I will pull both worms and when I get to Tucson the first thing I will do is mail them to Golden Colorado. I'm not ready to spend $1000+ to ship the whole mount, though if they tell me to, or bring it along on my flight, I certainly will. SB is at least communicating with me and has said "we will get to the bottom of this."
Greg, You are right, but I don't quit. I figure I've got 12 more days to get further along this road. If I don't I will pull both worms and when I get to Tucson the first thing I will do is mail them to Golden Colorado. I'm not ready to spend $1000+ to ship the whole mount, though if they tell me to, or bring it along on my flight, I certainly will. SB is at least communicating with me and has said "we will get to the bottom of this."
Peter
Without detailed knowledge on assembly procedures and test gear on how to set-up the belts etc, I'd recommend you return the mount.
The how-to documents are all there on the Bisque website. Unlike the ME, the MX apparently doesn't need the belts to be adjusted using an exotic sonic meter.
The how-to documents are all there on the Bisque website. Unlike the ME, the MX apparently doesn't need the belts to be adjusted using an exotic sonic meter.
How can I put this delicately
While I have the service manual for my car, I prefer to get my mechanic, who was trained at Maranello to do the servicing... his skilled eye often picks up stuff I miss.
I don't see how changing the worm gears can make the situation worse, but might just fix the problem. The documentation is straight forward enough and more than a few guys have done this in Australia without issue and have fixed PEC problems in doing so. If a different worm fixes the backlash problem that will be great. If it doesn't then I agree there really isn't much more I can do or try. The mount will go back to the factory!
