Request for advice - buying my next refractor

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by Kunama

Send a PM to UniPol (Steve) he had a WO 132 triplet with Starlight Instruments 4" Feather Touch R & P focuser, WO RDF, WO tube rings, WO dovetail & saddle plate, WO 2" dielectric quartz diagonal, in the classifieds recently around the $3300 mark but withdrew the ad. An immaculate scope apparently.
He might still be prepared to sell it.

I recently bought the WO 110 Flourite (For $2,500 landed). I would have bought the 132 myself but couldn't afford the extra cost. Nevertheless, I love my WO FLT110. Definitely the best refractor I have ever owned.

[Steffen]

I suppose Matthew needs to decide whether he wants the scope for visual or imaging use.

I reckon that $2500 is too much for a 4" visual scope, no matter how good it is. You just don't see enough through it to justify the price tag. I accept that a refractor of this size will easily beat a 6" reflector for sheer visual pleasure, but said reflector will cost a small fraction of the refractor.

For imaging use the scenario appears to change considerably (and beyond my area of experience). Many people on this very forum have proven that excellent images are possible with diminutive refractors.

Cheers
Steffen.

[Profiler (Profiler)]

I am commenting here only from my own experience and perceptions. In principle I agree with everyones comments in terms of general bang for your buck as to what you get and see in a refractor versus any of the reflectors.

However, I would like to add one other dimension which is resale value. In this context it seems to me refractors generally (and especially high end refractors) always fare much better in terms of retaining their value. This doesn't have anything to do with what you see through the eyepiece but once you buy something and decide you don't like it for whatever reason I have found that it always seems to be much easier to sell a refractor (for a good price) and thus minimise the loss on your initial outlay.

Ironically, this principle also seems to be the most pronounced with the more expensive brands.

As a final tip I would strongly recommend looking and perhaps buying from William Optics online.

I have observed a number of occasions where WO products are being sold 2nd hand here on IIS for prices that are very close to the same as what you could buy the product for brand new straight from the manufacturer (William Optics) often inclusive of shipping all the way from Taiwan to Oz.

For example, I saw a 2nd hand diagonal sell for $80 while an identical brand new one could be purchased from WO online inclusive of frieght to Oz for $85!

[Kunama]

Originally Posted by Steffen

I suppose Matthew needs to decide whether he wants the scope for visual or imaging use.

I reckon that $2500 is too much for a 4" visual scope, no matter how good it is. You just don't see enough through it to justify the price tag. ........

Cheers
Steffen.

I think there is more to it Steffen, I can understand people paying a large premium for beautifully crafted items, rather than mass produced ones.
The actual time spent at the eyepiece is rather small in most cases so sometimes one has to be content to just admire the scope designers craft while waiting for clouds to clear.

Profiler, I agree with your thoughts on re-sale values, I think once a person knows their involvement in astronomy is not a passing fad, they should look to buy a scope that they will be happy to own for a long time.
If that costs more at the start, the savings will come later when, instead of trading up again and again you stay with that first purchase. Looking at the the trends in buying and selling here on IIS (self included) most people seem to under-spend and then end up upgrading to what they really wanted but thought they could not afford.

With regard to buying off-shore the real problem is what happens when something goes wrong and there are no more aussie dealers left to help you.

[skytry (Peter)]

hi Matthew,
and others for their entries,
what a great topic,
I am asking something similar in general chat,

and I am viewing all responses with interest,

another brand I am considering is Explore Scientific 127mm
APO refractor, another grab & go scope, if they made bigger
I would consider that also,

the Williams I would be prepared to purchase, good name good
backup service if required, their quality I consider too be good also,

thank you for the reply's,

regards,
Peter.

[Profiler (Profiler)]

Some very good points Matt

I agree it is nice to support local business but it is important to keep an open mind as simply because a shop is local doesn't imply they are automatically better (in terms of service if something isn't quite right/goes wrong etc) or conversely an on-line business won't be as good.

If you read these forums there are plenty of good and bad experiences with both Oz stores and on-line stores.

[martyn01 (Lane)]

Have a look here just got nexstar 8se shipped to oz for $1400 saves all most $1000

http://www.highpointscientific.com/c...k8I9qNyQR9HGW/

[Steffen]

Originally Posted by Kunama

I think there is more to it Steffen, I can understand people paying a large premium for beautifully crafted items, rather than mass produced ones.

Yes, I can totally accept that. Likewise, I personally feel that $100,000 is too much to spend on a car I use for my daily commute. That's not to say somebody else who has the means and the love for exotic cars shouldn't spend that much or more.

Cheers
Steffen.

[Kal (Andrew)]

The stellarvues and APM scopes suggested are certainly high quality, but they are just as expensive or even more expensive than AP/TEC/TAK scopes. For example, a SV130 apo is US$5975 compared to the TEC140 APO at $5700.

I own a 5" AP Apo and a C11, if I want to do anything purely visual beyond a fast setup 'quick observe' I will always pull out the C11. You just can't beat aperture. So my advice is to sit tight with what you have

[brian nordstrom (As avatar)]

I had a very good NG 127mm triplet and as already said here these triplets are a steal . Awsome optics and build .
But , there is always a But ! .
I had the chance to buy a Takahashi Mewlon 210 and I will say the views thru this scope just blew the 127mm away in every way , I have now sold the 127mm , not because it was a bad scope , far from it , its just that the M210 is so much better , like a 7 inch APO at the eyepiece for a good price only 3.2k new from AEC .
Have a look .
Oh yes the M210 is easier to mount than a long refractor OTA .
Brian.

[clive milne]

William Optics Fluorostar FLT-132 on the test bench... (By Wolfgang Rohr)
Verus Skywatcher Equinox 120 - Apo

http://translate.googleusercontent.c...SdbQ#post38525

The FLT-132 gets pwned

[Profiler (Profiler)]

There is no doubt that the perfunctory mass produced refractors coming out of China have, in general, improved immensely from what they were even a decade ago. However, I think one perhaps overlooked key element between the big ticket brands and the mass produced is the consistency in the product/quality control. For example, when you buy a Tak/Televue etc the product is meant to be 100% everytime. The survival of these manufacturers is based upon this reputation and from my own observations - on the once in the blue moon occasion - when something isn't right they cant act quick enough to replace it.

Contrast this with comments even on this thread with the ED127. Now - a 127 APO triplet for $1200 is a dream price - however - for this wonderful price you have to appreciate that something has to give and something has to be different between the prices and thus most likely corners are going to be cut which aren't in the big ticket brand - thus you are buying into a bit of a lucky dip as to what you actually get and whether the particular scope you receive is perfect and whether it has the focuser just right, or some paint missing around the edges, or some dust/fragments visible inside the ota etc etc.

[whzzz28 (Nathan)]

Originally Posted by clive milne

William Optics Fluorostar FLT-132 on the test bench... (By Wolfgang Rohr)
Verus Skywatcher Equinox 120 - Apo

http://translate.googleusercontent.c...SdbQ#post38525

The FLT-132 gets pwned

Interesting.
All reports for the Equinox series that i have seen is that the scope is a dud. Soft images and average performance given the cost.
Hard to find many reviews for it though - no one is buying it

Interestingly i hardly ever see anyone recommend the Televue NP101is. I have heard of many using it for visual and imaging purposes and with a Nagler-Petzval design it should be a cracker. Reviews for imaging are scarce though and same with Google image results.

As someone who is looking for an upgrade of his ED80 to something mid range i say goodluck!
There is not much in the range of $3000-$4000 that is decent. Best i've come up with is the William Optics FLT110 or fork out some more and get a Tak (accessories kill the price though).

[Den (Dennis)]

“ So given this will probably be a scope for 70% - 80% visual initially - and say impressing friends that drop in with sharper views of Saturn, Mars or Jupiter (and whatever else); what advice will folk give me (beyond attend star parties and look through many different scopes.”

Buy a smaller premium APO for astro shots say a 90mm, and for impressing friends on planets purchase a TAL200K FL 8.5 (1700) or bigger TAL250K. I have a TAL200k and it gives excellent views on planets. I have looked through a TOA150 APO and it gives very bright high power views which smaller refractors just cannot do. Have you considered using a long focal length achromatic refractor for visual use Say 6” Istar .
Den

[axle01 (Alan)]

I have just purchased a United Optics ULT 130 Triplet APO Refractor Telescope from Astromony Alive in Melbourne and from what I'm told it is a Williams Optics FLT132 but cheaper, certainly worth looking at.

Alan