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  #21  
Old 22-06-2006, 09:17 AM
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Just a quick after-note; see if you can get some large grip diameter RA & DEC lock knobs it makes for easier use.
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  #22  
Old 22-06-2006, 06:57 PM
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Thanks for the tip Roger i have been trying to get them already. I cant believe how difficult it is! I tried 2 local Fastener specialist`s in Geelong and neither had anything, then tried the biggest Bunning store also nothing. I am on holidays soon i`ll pick them up in Melbourne.
I now have re-attached the Drive to the mount and want to make a sheet-metal cover, i have also started on the scope mount and rings.
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  #23  
Old 12-07-2006, 07:15 PM
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About time for an update on the scope, i have changed direction because of the fantastic idea from Ken on using Gas cylinder rings. So i have bought a pair and decided to follow suit and put the 12" up on the mount and proceed with the 10" as a DOB mount. As the Sampson mount is capable of carrying the scope i thought it was the only way to go.
The 10" is progressing in the photo the tube is almost back to bare metal, i have a new secondary mirror, 8x50 finder and new focuser for it already. Next job is to send the primary mirror away for re-coating while i finish the tube.
I will make a new DOB mount soon.
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  #24  
Old 12-07-2006, 08:31 PM
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ballaratdragons (Ken)
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Another EQ restoration Project done well.

Excellent Terry. Feels good doesn't it! I'm glad you gave the LPG gas bottle rings a go! Shows that my posting of the idea was worth it

Last edited by ballaratdragons; 12-07-2006 at 09:06 PM.
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  #25  
Old 13-07-2006, 06:56 PM
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Well i have soldiered on and put the Scope up on the mount, i painted the rings in the matching Hammertone finish of the mount and i used the carpet on the inside of the rings. The job is not finished it needs to be all balanced and stuff and I stll need to get a few extra weights,hand knobs for the ring bolts etc but it is looking like a serious machine now
Thanks Ken for your ring project
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  #26  
Old 13-07-2006, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spudrick
. The job is not finished it needs to be all balanced and stuff and I stll need to get a few extra weights,hand knobs for the ring bolts etc but it is looking like a serious machine now
Thanks Ken for your ring project
A smooth stable 12" Dob tube lumbered on top a shaky German equatorial mount built for an 8" tube at best ??????

Makes me think of a bird tethered to a kite string

Mark
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  #27  
Old 13-07-2006, 09:49 PM
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Hello Mark
Dont know why you say the mount is not capable of holding the 12", It held my 10" for many years without problems. I only decided to put the 12" on it after seeing Paul Mayo setup (see photo)
http://www.skylab.com.au/pmsa/equip.html
Exactly same mount as mine.
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  #28  
Old 13-07-2006, 10:01 PM
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Looks fine to me too Terry.
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  #29  
Old 07-08-2006, 07:33 PM
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Just added the extra weights and lifted up the 12" today. Just shows how not so portable this is. So i have left the bearings on the tube and will keep the Dob base so it is a versatile scope. I have recently picked up a much more portable scope a Celestron SCT Ultima 8" which i plan to make my main scope and hopefully buy a modded Toucam soon
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  #30  
Old 08-08-2006, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spudrick
Well i have made some progress on the scope. a bit of Spit `n polish the mount is now up to speed. Charcoal Grey
Bringer of bad news here, you've assembled the DEC housing upside down, the long section is supposed to be at the counterweight shaft end with a Sampson Mount and there's very little clearance between the saddle plate and RA gear.
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  #31  
Old 08-08-2006, 02:47 AM
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asimov (John)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanW
Bringer of bad news here, you've assembled the DEC housing upside down, the long section is supposed to be at the counterweight shaft end with a Sampson Mount and there's very little clearance between the saddle plate and RA gear.
Correct
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  #32  
Old 08-08-2006, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asimov
Correct
Pic of my Sampson Mount taken the day my first 8" saw first light as a complete scope, August 14 1975. No RA drive at the time though as AOS had no stock.
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  #33  
Old 08-08-2006, 09:07 AM
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Thanks for your help Ian, Will get it fixed this weekend.
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  #34  
Old 08-08-2006, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spudrick
Thanks for your help Ian, Will get it fixed this weekend.
No worries Terry, glad to be of help.

The Sampson mount as a standard unit was okay for visual use, but horrible to align as the mount was really a knock off design based on a mixture of the old Cave, Edmund Scientific and Fullerscopes Broadhurst and Clarkeson (UK) mount designs of the late 50s and early 60s.

I extensively modified my mount from '75 to '84 to get it not only operating well but to make it far easier to setup, some of the mods I made were:

RA and DEC locks:
If you remove an existing lock you can have the thread identified at any industrial fastner specialist.

From memory they use a BSW thread. I dissassembled my unit, pulled the locks and retapped the thread to accept a standard tri-nut unit as used in stage lighting (Par 56/64 cans). These tri-nuts are available from any stage lighting supplier for a couple of bucks each.

Leg levellers:
I drilled and tapped the end of each leg to take a stainless steel capscrew to act as a leg leveller. On my legset there were threaded holes on the underside of the round tip of each leg. Why capscrews? Though needing an Allen key to use, they are lower profile and less likely to be walked in to at night and far less tempting for people to want to play with.

The Pier:
Before modifying the pier make sure the top of the pier tube is squared off accurately. I ran my pier tube through a lathe to make sure it was accurate to 1/1000th of an inch. This step really isn't needed though as there's so much slop in the RA mount cap anyway.

After squaring the pier tube I plugged the bottom of the pier, just above the leg mounting bolts with a bit of chipboard and gaffa taped the gaps then filled the pier with concrete. It not only reduced vibration but also made the mount far more stable. A lighter weight version would be to fill the pier with expanding foam as used in small boat floatation cells

The mount (RA) Cap:
A horrific bit of design work this! Slop laden, with a single fastening screw it's truly a nightmare.

If you have access to a lathe and milling machine I can supply you with a couple of suggested ways of sorting out the cap, otherwise the best you can do is shim the cap to reduce slop and add 2 extra locking screws at 120° intervals around the cap. I highly recommend replacing the existing tightening bolt (flat screwdriver head) with capscrews.

Other fun:
There's a couple of other nightmares with the Sampson mount, the biggest of which is actually getting the swine polar aligned accurately. As there's no provision in the standard mount for fine adjustments you can either build some (late, mill needed) or use the knockometer method for azimuth adjustment and a variety of methods involving car jacks, lumps of wood etc for the RA polar axis altitude adjustment.

Cheers,
Ian
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  #35  
Old 08-08-2006, 05:26 PM
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Thats what i love about this place there is an endless supply of knowledge and you guys are so helpful. I really appreciate the help.
I took the mount back apart and fixed the housing to point the correct way, and there is min 25mm clearance for the drive gear.
Ian all of the suggestions you have made are great the most important being the polar alignment, it is truly difficult and to rely on just a single bolt is just not right. It should have some type of locking pin or similar.
Well i do not have a lathe but would like to modify/fix some of the faults with the mount to make it more enjoyable to use
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  #36  
Old 08-08-2006, 06:30 PM
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asimov (John)
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My mounts the same principle, so I added a big turn buckle to the setup to give me some fine adjustment which go's between the pier and the end of the RA housing.
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  #37  
Old 08-08-2006, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spudrick
Thats what i love about this place there is an endless supply of knowledge and you guys are so helpful. I really appreciate the help.
I took the mount back apart and fixed the housing to point the correct way, and there is min 25mm clearance for the drive gear.
Ian all of the suggestions you have made are great the most important being the polar alignment, it is truly difficult and to rely on just a single bolt is just not right. It should have some type of locking pin or similar.
Well i do not have a lathe but would like to modify/fix some of the faults with the mount to make it more enjoyable to use
Hi Terry,

Glad to be of help. I'll post some methods for aligning the beastie later tonight as I need to knock up some drawings to illustrate the method.

Do you have access to any of the following: Plunge Router, Drill press as well as a good quality builders level and square?
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  #38  
Old 08-08-2006, 08:54 PM
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Thanks Ian i have the Router, level and square you can send me the drill press
I do have access to a drill press.
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  #39  
Old 09-08-2006, 01:24 AM
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Here you go Terry, Ian's azimuth fine tuner (wood version). The original was made out of aluminum and didn't go all the way around the pier cap and pier as it was held in place with some strategically placed tapped holes in the pier and cap.

It can be made out of 25mm ply scraps and I've not dimensioned the unit as I no longer have my Sampson mount and am working largely from memories that are 12 years old while roughing out the unit design so view the design as nothing more than a guide to a method that works well.

Construction wise the only difficult bit is making the unit fit tightly on the pier and cap, as you need a good level of clench on the pier and cap to overcome the friction induced by the metal to metal contact between pier and cap, adding some grease to the inside of the cap where it meets the top of the pier will help.

Asimov's turnbuckle suggestion for RA altitude adjustment is pretty much what I did, though I made up a custom slip ring for the back of the RA shaft as there wasn't much room to fit it. If I remember rightly (now stretching my mind back to mid 76) the back of the RA drive has a collet that just butts up against the RA drive. If this is correct you could simply tap a hole in to it and put in a heavy threaded eyelet and hook the turnbukle to another eyelet mounted on the pier. Needless to say you'll have to remove the turnbuckle when rotating the RA axis.

Cheers,
Ian
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