About to kill an NEQ6 - Page 2

rmuhlack (Richard) · #21 14-01-2013, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LewisM

Richard, this is the FIRST mount to do this. The previous HEQ5 failed MECHANICALLY where the motor shaft would spin in the cog, with the cog not moving (A QC issue) There are no comm errors with computer and PHD, as like I said, after aligning, the mount starts to drift by itself in Dec VERY rapidly - in the 25 minutes I left it alone unguided last night as a trial from being on M42 to start, it ended up being easily 30° off target.

okay, settle down. note that your initial post states that:

Quote:

Tired of this. Second SW mount to do this to me, and I always take utmost care in balance etc.

Anyway...

In which DEC direction does it fall - north or south? Does it always fall/drift in the same direction? (I assume that is is "falling" and not being driven in DEC when its not meant to be as you refer to the problem as "slipping" and so suspected the clutch was not working properly.)

You have said several times that this is a problem *after* you have drift aligned. Im confused as to how drift alignment is possible at all if the mount is moving in DEC when its not meant too?

Also, if the scope is properly balanced in all directions, why is it falling/drifting at all? If properly balanced surely it should stay still (in both RA and DEC) when pointing at any sky position even with the clutches fully disengaged...??

I also noticed on your photo of the R200SS on your classified listing that the OTA seems to be further back in the tube rings than what I would have expected - my 200mm f4 newt certainly wouldn't be balanced in DEC in that position (although I would expect my NEQ6 clutch to still be able to hold it in position anyway)

Your image: http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/a...hmentid=129493

LewisM · #22 14-01-2013, 04:10 PM

Richard, not after drift aligning, but after a Synscan 3 star alignment. Even during the alignment routine, the stars are drifting quite noticeably in the short time on each target.

The R200SS is balanced that was because it usually has a whacking big 5D Mk II DSLR hung under it. I took the DSLR off for the photo

I have used the R200SS all of 3 times, and never was there a balnce issue. THe scope I use on this mount is a Vixen Fl102 refractor, which is always perfectly balanced - I even had a small adjustable counterweight custom made to do small adjustments.

I suspect the dec is not slipping or falling, but is being incorrectly DRIVEN as Merlin66 also suspects. I tried a PEC correction even, but that failed miserably - could not keep it centred.

I just tried a push and pull test on the axes all clutched up - NO movement, though I was NOT going to push overly hard either.

As Tasco said and Ron at Sirius, motherboard - motor controller failing or corrupt "driver" in the handset.

Time will tell.

Merlin66 (Ken) · #23 14-01-2013, 04:18 PM

Lewis,
Just a thought...
What happens when you use the handcontroller to move the RA and DEC.
Various speed settings etc - does the Dec stop when the button is released? is there any particular speed setting which aggravates the problem?

asimov (John) · #24 14-01-2013, 04:18 PM

It's pretty well confirmed with your test then I feel - It's not a slipping clutch.

LewisM · #25 14-01-2013, 04:37 PM

BTW, apologies Richard - I was not meaning to be sarcastic etc. I am just flabberghastingly frustrated!

LewisM · #26 14-01-2013, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin66

Lewis,
Just a thought...
What happens when you use the handcontroller to move the RA and DEC.
Various speed settings etc - does the Dec stop when the button is released? is there any particular speed setting which aggravates the problem?

Ken, dec WILL stop, momentarily, then starts to creep.

Wish there was clear skies here tonight to test. I just have a sinking feeling it will need to go back.

Ron did say to check the cables for worn insulation - this apparantly does happen with the HEQ5/HE!6/NEQ6 a fair bit, causing intermittent issues.

Terry B · #27 14-01-2013, 04:47 PM

Can you feel the dec motor turning after a slew has finished. If the mount is reasonably polar aligned then the Dec motor should not be moving.
I don't have my EQ6 anymore and don't remember exactly but is there an option to disable Dec corrections. If you can do this then you should be able to work out if the motor is driving when it shouldn't

Irish stargazer (John) · #28 14-01-2013, 08:18 PM

Just an after thought. Could your power supply be running a low voltage? This can cause mounts to do funny things.

Screwdriverone (Chris) · #29 14-01-2013, 08:48 PM

Hi Lewis,

One of my original points was to check that sidereal tracking is actually on?

Not sure if you answered it, I know its obvious, but my scope doesnt turn it on if I dont do an initial alignment after boot up. It has caught me out twice now as I normally do at least a 2 star before going into PC direct mode with EQ mod. Even if EQmod sidereal is turned on, it goes off again....

Not implying you havent done it, but often the simple things may get overlooked.

If you slew and then the target immediately starts drifting, then maybe the tracking is off?

Chris

LewisM · #30 14-01-2013, 08:58 PM

Chris,

Sidereal is ALWAYS on with this mount, as I always do a 3 star align at boot up. I also always make sure tracking is on.

I received some information from another NEQ6 user experiencing the same issue, and it MAY be an issue with a dll with PHD guiding, as Chris Stark addressed this issue precisely apparently (I have not found it on his site yet). He suggests to delete a certain dll, letting the program rewrite it at fresh start. Just to be sure, I downloaded and installed the very latest PHD as well (2 months old).

I really am not sure it is a PHD issue though, as the mount does regress quickly even with PHD exited.

John, I am running a dedicated DC supply as supplied by Steve Massey - he knows his stuff, so I am certain the power supply is not at fault. I will check it too though, and even try the setup from the old jump start battery setup.

Terry, I think the dec does continue - seems to be some hum in it. Not the usual RA sound I m used to - there is definitely an additional noice I noted last night - a high frequency sound on top of the high freq pitch of the RA.

Going to be a lot of trial and error...

LewisM · #31 14-01-2013, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merlin66

".....is slipping in dec"

[COLOR=black]
You really need to balance in three axis...
-around the OTA
-the Dec
and the RA axis.
(Obviously our posts crossed! - I see you have a 30 degree "movement" in Dec - this as you're thinking must be due to the dec motor still driving....)

Ken,

I balance in dec first, and then in RA. Not sure the difference in "around OTA balance" (unless you mean the asymmetric balance like with Newtonians? I only use a refractor, and the only off-axis weight will be the finderscope, which is not much). Pleas elaborate, as I obviously need to learn.

There has not been any balance or tracking errors prior to this week (mount hadn't been used in a month thanks to QLD's glorious weather), so unless any potential mis-balance "hurt" something that finally gave up?

Really appreciate the help guys. It will be sorted, one way or the other!

mithrandir (Andrew) · #32 14-01-2013, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LewisM

I received some information from another NEQ6 user experiencing the same issue, and it MAY be an issue with a dll with PHD guiding, as Chris Stark addressed this issue precisely apparently (I have not found it on his site yet). He suggests to delete a certain dll, letting the program rewrite it at fresh start. Just to be sure, I downloaded and installed the very latest PHD as well (2 months old).

Lewis, PHD 1.14 is supposed to have a few bugs. They may not affect your NEQ6 but in case you might try 1.13.7a from the prerelease page or 1.13.x from the archive page

2stroke (Jay) · #33 14-01-2013, 10:27 PM

Maybe you should post your phd setting in case, its also wise to have it out of balance a just a tad so it rides on one side of the worm. Lol having a hell of a time myself

allan gould · #34 14-01-2013, 10:30 PM

Have you tried another guiding program such as guidedog, guidemaster or Metaguide rather than phd?

LewisM · #35 14-01-2013, 11:04 PM

Allan, no, I have not but will. Unless PHD became corrupt, I cannot see how it could have changed since I had not updated PHD in months, and only updated the handset AFTER the issue last night.

But most importantly, as I said, even if PHD is not running, the mount was definitely whacky in dec.

I pulled the mount apart tonight.Nothing obvious except for a SLIGHTLY out of alignment LED plug, which probably only wiggled off that little when I was removing the cover plate etc.

I locked the clutches as tight as humanly possible, and there is ZERO play in dec. RA has a MINUTE side to side movement - about 1/2mm each side, if that.

More trial and error - put I need a star to guide off, which is NOT even plausible here in SE QLD at the moment (lovely rain!) as I am sure you know.

Merlin66 (Ken) · #36 15-01-2013, 08:53 AM

Lewis,
Re balancing...
Yes, "asymmetrical" balancing of the OTA.
Most of the time the amateurs just position the OTA horizontal and check the balance. When the scope is pointing towards the zenith, finders, guiders, cameras, cables, filter wheels etc etc etc can all lead to an out of balance Dec condition. This can show up as OK guiding with lower altitude stars and rubbish guiding with higher altitude stars....
Definately worth checking out.