Raspberry Pi as a VNC connected mount-controller - Page 2

rmuhlack (Richard) · #21 03-01-2013, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nortilus

I think this would be the easier option than messing with linux based devices such as the RPis...

where's the fun in that

Poita (Peter) · #22 03-01-2013, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nortilus

im looking at using an Asus EeePC and using remote desktop to control it. I will just make a Network cable long enough to run into my house (max of about 90metres for Cat5/5e/6 before repeater). 10/100 network is heaps enough bandwidth for this.
You can run windows xp on these little devices. Setup a network drive back to your main PC so all data is not locally saved on the device. Should work like a champ. You can also upgrade these things by yourself. Put larger SSDs in them, more Ram. they run off an external powerpack. you can get larger batteries for them if needed.
I think this would be the easier option than messing with linux based devices such as the RPis...

Yeah, but by the time you option it up you may as well use a full blown laptop.

Nortilus (Josh) · #23 03-01-2013, 02:29 PM

look on ebay or 2nd hand...they sometimes come up for less than $100 for a system that is more than enough.
You could always go the way of the miniITX motherboard and build a custom waterproof casing for it (only to stop dew). They are mostly passively cooled and have everything onboard apart from a hard drive.

wasyoungonce (Brendan) · #24 03-01-2013, 03:47 PM

I run all my set-up from an ACER Aspire one, 11.1"...pretty much like an eepc. Sure it's not power packed but has plenty of ability to do the job I require so far.

However I cannot see how to easily mount this on my mount or OTA, I have to be within a few meters of the mount to run USB/RS232 cables to it.

I even built a DIY +12V DC/4 port USB (powered) distribution hub and mounted this on the OTA/dovetail. This runs all my on-board equipment from the Acer via one USB cable (although I capability for another USB cable). I also use BT wireless for RS232 control......but It would be much simpler to have a mini system on the mount that can do all this, connected by Ethernet, run it from a lappy from any distance.

Of course Dew controller power is kept far away from all this at the front of my OTA.

Anyway that's my opinion...mileage may vary depending upon your equipment and this is growing!

wasyoungonce (Brendan) · #25 03-01-2013, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whzzz28

I'm not sure if Pi or any of the ARM based boards will have the required grunt to do this, nor will the software run (suppose it depends on what software you use)
............

Found there is quite a lot of windows embedded support for ARM processors....though don't know the details....looks as if this could cost a bit.

Like windows 7 compact for the beagleboard.

Lots of other windows embedded packages available (see here ). I'm not sure of the details or capabilities of all this.

edit:actually the embedded OS might be windows CE...not sure it's listed under Beagleboard wiki here. And CE wiki here.

RickS (Rick) · #26 03-01-2013, 08:19 PM

Microsoft reintroduced Windows for ARM architectures with Windows 8 after dumping it years back in the days of Windows CE. ARM is a much better choice for low-power devices like phones and tablets than the x86 architecture (but Intel may manage to fix this one day...)

Availability of Windows for ARM doesn't mean you can take a binary Windows application from a PC and run it on ARM Windows. You need to cross compile it from source code to make an ARM binary. Sometime the source code will also need to be modified if it hasn't been written with portability in mind. For commercial products, it will be up to the vendors to decide if this effort is worthwhile, so there is no guarantee that your favorite Astronomy applications will be available.

wasyoungonce (Brendan) · #27 03-01-2013, 08:32 PM

Thanks Rick...I was reading the Arrow site and most embedded package software didn't have source code available (some in binary only), some did and of course there is a NDA.

Tandum (Robin) · #28 03-01-2013, 11:54 PM

I ran an eeep box in the dome for some time. I pulled it eventually as there were not enough usb ports. I wouldn't want to do that on less than an atom, the eeep was pretty slow to respond as it was.

wasyoungonce (Brendan) · #29 04-01-2013, 07:41 AM

Hi Robin funny enough I have started looking at other small form factor boards.

Known small form factors worthy of a look are:

microATX min(171 x 171)
Mini-ITX (170 X 170)
Epic (EXPRESS) (165 X 115)
MiniATX (150 X 150)
ESM (149 x 71)
Nano-ITX (120 x 120)
Com Express (125 x 95)
ESMexpress (125 x 95)
ETX/XTX (114 x 95)
Pico-ITX (100 x 72)
QSeven (70 x 70)
Mobile-ITX (60 x 60)
CoreEspress (58 x 65)

I noticed the bigger forms use an Atom where as the smaller usually a via chip-sets. Lots of complaints about the via drivers.

It's another method worth exploring. I still have lots to look at but the pricing of some are outrageous.

chaffingbuttock (Matthew) · #30 04-01-2013, 12:42 PM

There are a few pricier options out there..

http://www.cnet.com.au/intels-nuc-go...-339342689.htm

AMD livebox (can't find any local information on that)

http://www.fit-pc.com/web/fit-pc/fit-pc2-i/

pmrid (Peter) · #31 04-01-2013, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaffingbuttock

There are a few pricier options out there..

http://www.fit-pc.com/web/fit-pc/fit-pc2-i/

I have 2 of these fitPC2s. One is the original which is pretty slow and can't be pimped much. The other is the fitPC2i with a 2 Ghz CPU. It runs as hot as hell - so much so that I have fitted a heat sink on the top of the case with a fan as well. It works OK though.

Peter

wasyoungonce (Brendan) · #32 04-01-2013, 02:14 PM

Thanks Matthew...I haven't seen the NUC before. Interesting...uses the i3u CPU...which from all accounts isn't a power house but is capable and low power device.

Uses internal SSD (PC case gear make no mention of this) and is only around 100mm square! One Gigabit LAN; 3 USB but no mention of wireless except to say it has an inbuilt antenna? They also have 2 HDMI out...I cannot fathom why? Built for home entertainment systems I guess?

So, the NUC is a little limited a little pricey but not too bad. Indeed something worthy of a bit of a more look at.

I have seen the fit2PC and their other versions, fit3 PC etc, thanks, they really cost quite a bit. Am also looking at other form factors atm.

Looks as if going to Raspberry Pi (or such like) would be a disaster due to lack of ability to run windows, ASCOM etc.

This pretty much re-draws the boundaries back to windows capable machines with small form factor.

chaffingbuttock (Matthew) · #33 04-01-2013, 02:50 PM

NP Brendan,

I wonder if a thin client setup may work? Again, I know nothing about all of this or whether it's possible or not. We have thin clients set up at work (which aren't actually thin cause they're full desktops), but it's a bit different cause each computer is actually fully functional with grunty hardware inside, but all of the programs are run off the server (graphics run locally I think). There are some very small thin clients available i.e. here and here

I realise that you'd still need to run things from a computer, but for the backyard astronomer, that's easy enough and you'd just have to run the ethernet cable into the house). If you're talking about portable setups, then back to square one!

chaffingbuttock (Matthew) · #34 04-01-2013, 03:04 PM

here's one with full on USB 1.1 support! I'm sure there are others that have USB 2.0 or better. Might see a bump in physical size though.

chaffingbuttock (Matthew) · #35 05-01-2013, 09:17 AM

Another pricy option just announced here

wasyoungonce (Brendan) · #36 05-01-2013, 03:06 PM

Ok, so far. Looks like the x86 architecture (in small form factor) is be best to stay with ATM due too driver and software conformity, aka you can use net-framework, ASCOM and common astro software packages.

From what I can currently see, the Fit2PC is a decent proposal for this, just 101mm x 115mm x 27mm (height) and reasonably cheap if purchased directly from the OEM. Be careful if purchasing in that some options come without wireless and there is not much mention on what alternate cards may work so best to buy with the OEM card installed. Another plus for this is they have XP and win7 drivers...nice...for old backward folk like me that are sticking with XP, knowing if I really have to move on, Win7 will work.

Another possibility is the intel Next Unit Computing (NUC), 116mm x 112mm x 39mm (height). Now these use i3u processors so are more powerful than the the fit2PC atoms but they appeared aimed for the multimedia market. As such have qty 2 HDMI ports and up to 5 USB ports (depends on model), inbuilt wireless antenna, no mention of wireless, probably you need to use either the spare PCI express or half PCI express slot card for this. I guess you fit a HDD (either SSD or std) via one of these or USB port. Also 2 SO-DIMM slots of 1333 or 1600mhz RAM, so you can load up the RAM.

ATM the fit2PC looks the better option. It is a known package that works. Both systems can work without a display connected but you need to connect a display for set-up, install etc. I'll be buying a fit2PC soon. I just cannot resist.

Matthew...I don't know about the "thin client's", since they are Linux I suspect they will not work.

The idea of using a Raspberry Pi (or similar ARM board) sound good but the limitations of lack of ASCOM support or windows support (to run your favourite Astro programs) kills it dead.

Any other inputs on small form factor systems are welcome but unless we can ensure they can run windows & ASCOM then they will always be limited for ability to do astro work.... for the common folk.

Pity linux running ASCOM would be real nice indeed!

chaffingbuttock (Matthew) · #37 05-01-2013, 11:30 PM

Maybe someone knows how these cpuless thin clients work? From what I can find on the internet, you even run the operating system of the server. They say you can run up to about 40 instances of a single home system (win 7) or up to 300 off a server system (Windows server 2003). This is different to the thin client that I'm used to, which had its own operating system and hardware which then accesses programs off the server. If this is the case, you'd just need one with usb2 and a long network cable to another computer (plus the requisite power connection). I'll see if I can find more information on the topic

mswhin63 (Malcolm) · #38 06-01-2013, 11:04 AM

Until Linux is running on ASCOM I will be sticking with mini computer. They are quite cheap. I am running 1GHz 512MB RAM and manage satisfactorily APT, PHD, TeamViewer and a number of other software. I am now running Splashtop Streamer as well so I can control using my Android Tablet while watching a movie with the wife (Boss)

I will be upgrading though to a different one with higher processing power and 1G min later but so far fine for now.

Tandum (Robin) · #39 06-01-2013, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaffingbuttock

Maybe someone knows how these cpuless thin clients work?

I think you'll find they run a MIPS chipset like a modem etc and have Remote Desktop Protocol client software embedded into them.

RickS (Rick) · #40 06-01-2013, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaffingbuttock

Maybe someone knows how these cpuless thin clients work? From what I can find on the internet, you even run the operating system of the server. They say you can run up to about 40 instances of a single home system (win 7) or up to 300 off a server system (Windows server 2003). This is different to the thin client that I'm used to, which had its own operating system and hardware which then accesses programs off the server. If this is the case, you'd just need one with usb2 and a long network cable to another computer (plus the requisite power connection). I'll see if I can find more information on the topic

These thin clients aren't completely CPUless. They are typically based on a low-cost, low-power system on chip (usually ARM) and run an embedded operating system (often Linux based). All that runs on the thin client is a basic OS and a software client that is capable of running a keyboard and display and responding to commands from a server. These commands are sent using one of a number of protocols designed for this purpose, e.g. Microsoft's RDP (remote desktop protocol). Applications run on the server and only keyboard and display data goes back and forward between the client and the server.

A desktop thin client isn't really a solution to the problem being discussed in this thread.

That's not to say that other client/server technology isn't useful. If the INDI library (http://indilib.org/) becomes widely adopted then you would be able to use a small device mounted on the scope that just takes care of the interfaces to the mount, focuser, cameras, etc. and talks over Ethernet or WiFi to applications running on your laptop or even on a server anywhere on the Internet. You can do this already if you are happy to limit yourself to a small set of Linux applications.

Cheers,
Rick.