Is spelling old fashioned?

[matt]

Originally Posted by marki

Matt, standards have both fallen and risen depending on where you look. The kids do maths that used to be considered university level only. Chemistry is the same as when I went to school. English has become sociology and there is much less emphasis on the 3 R's and more on the ability to analyse and form an argument supported by work of previous authors. Physics has been contextualised and much of the math removed. Why, not enough girls were taking up engineering so they changed the sylabus to suit what they thought girls would be interested in. This has failed, no more females take up the subject and boys can't write essays, their one out (maths) has been taken away from them. Society and environment is dead, kids just don't care anymore. Much of this has stemmed from silly academic claptrap being forced into schools. They want kids to be working at abstract levels of thinking without giving them a chance to learn the basics. If you read some of the english assignments my kids have to do you would cringe, I know I do. I often sit down with my chem kids and a dictionary after class. Together we try to work out what they have been asked to do in english.

Mark

Well, there you go, Mark.

Perhaps it's time to go back to the 3 Rs and teach them in their purest form, unpolluted with all the neo-educational claptrap.

We can take care of the other stuff like sociology, analysis and argument/debate in their own subjects or minor studies.

Don't water down the basics. Don't fiddle with them to suit the times.

Core is core.

[renormalised (Carl)]

One thing that I've found, over the years, and that's a lot of so called "brilliant" students at school can't handle university. They invariably dropout in the first semester or at the end of their first year. The problem is they're so used to having someone look over their shoulder (i.e. the teacher) that they can't handle having to be responsible for their own education. Many of them have not been taught to research properly, nor have they been given the right tools to handle the responsibility of having to do things by themselves. Some manage to pick this up going through their education, but not all of them that do so are the ones with TER/HSC/OP scores of the highest value attainable. Even so, those that can and do manage university don't find it a cakewalk. All, accept those rare cases where the person has eidetic memory (and I knew one, personally...grrrrr).

[mithrandir (Andrew)]

Originally Posted by marki

That is a very silly teacher indeed Les. It would not happen in my classroom. I encourage my kids to fight for every mark (1/2 marks included).
...

40 years ago I had to fight with an examiner about giving a 4 unit complex number answer to a 3 unit question. They had marked it wrong because in the 3 unit course complex numbers were not covered and the "proper" answer was there was no solution.

I won eventually, got the extra marks. It made no difference to the results. I'd already topped the school.

[marki]

Originally Posted by dpastern

I really have to disagree. The family that I lived with in Sydney had a daughter going through her high school year 11/12 - I would often help her and check her homework etc. It didn't seem any harder, or more involved than when I was at school. Back when I went to school, year 11/12 physics was taught in the first semester of the first year, of Uni. It only got harder.

The problem is that if you give kids an opt out, they'll take it. Everyone is lazy. They'll *only* learn if you *make* them. That's human nature. By removing auto aids, you are forcing them to use their brains, and thus learn. Sure, a small percentage will have issues, they always do, but I think you'll find that the majority of the kids will still learn.

Your comments Mark do not represent the facts - that kids of years ago still managed to learn without auto aids. Ergo, by pure logic, they are not critical to the learning process, and it is possibly to learn without them. Auto aids make kids lazy and dumb. It is not only my opinion, but the opinion of many older people, and several ex teachers that I know.

Dave

David, if you read my last post you would noticed that I said physics has become contextualised not more difficult. I really doubt you were exposed to partial differentials or maticies or a whole host of other stuff that kids now have to deal with at a high school level noe days, it just was not done. As for old folks (myself included) we always think we were better then the next generation, it's human nature. Ex teachers have very little to add to the debate. Research shows it takes about ten years to burn out all but the most dedicated teachers. They left because they no longer had the passion to teach or were so discontent that they became extremely negative. I have met many like this and will tell you the best place for them is anywhere but a classroom. It is difficult and exhausting work and most cannot hang in there unless they have the best attitude. As for chucking out technology pfffttt, imagine being a carpenter and going to work without your hammer or nailgun. It,s not going to be a productive day. Lack of resources means computer use is minimal in any case. I book the kids into the computer labs about 6 times in any year and I work at what is considered to be a well resourced private school. Contrary to many opinions expressed here, there were just as many stupid people around when I was a kid as there are now. It was not a time of super intellects or any other such thing. Learning used to all about memory but you can teach a parrot to mimic what you say. Knowledge alone is the lowest form of intelligence.

Mark

[marki]

Originally Posted by renormalised

One thing that I've found, over the years, and that's a lot of so called "brilliant" students at school can't handle university. They invariably dropout in the first semester or at the end of their first year. The problem is they're so used to having someone look over their shoulder (i.e. the teacher) that they can't handle having to be responsible for their own education. Many of them have not been taught to research properly, nor have they been given the right tools to handle the responsibility of having to do things by themselves. Some manage to pick this up going through their education, but not all of them that do so are the ones with TER/HSC/OP scores of the highest value attainable. Even so, those that can and do manage university don't find it a cakewalk. All, accept those rare cases where the person has eidetic memory (and I knew one, personally...grrrrr).

Carl a major problem with uni lecturers is that a large number of them couldn,t teach to save their lives. When I went you did not even need a teaching qualification to lecture and I have some stories I could tell you about that. Academically brilliant but could not communicate. Another problem is that most kids will be lazy and do not want to put in the time it takes to be successful. Why spend 4 years at uni working your guts out when you can do a 3 day course at TAFE in real estate and make 10 times the wage of any degree holder. We had some extensions done at our school recently I remember one time I was on duty on the front oval and looked into the car park. The best car belonged to the brickie.

Mark

[renormalised (Carl)]

I really doubt you were exposed to partial differentials or maticies or a whole host of other stuff that kids now have to deal with at a high school level, it just was not done.

I was...I also had to do calculus (of all types), algebra, full and partial differentiation, co-ordinate geometry, conic section, probs and stats, and quite a few other things I'd rather forget

As for such maths not being taught many years ago, I've seen my father's school books and some of his old textbooks from school. He was last in school in 1939. Everything you and I mentioned were in those books. He was a maths whiz...never got less than 98% for his exams. Some of the stuff he could work out in his head makes mine spin!!!!.

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by marki

Carl a major problem with uni lecturers is that a large number of them couldn,t teach to save their lives. When I went you did not even need a teaching qualification to lecture and I have some stories I could tell you about that. Academically brilliant but could not communicate. Another problem is that most kids will be lazy and do not want to put in the time it takes to be successful. Why spend 4 years at uni working your guts out when you can do a 3 day course at TAFE in real estate and make 10 times the wage of any degree holder. We had some extensions done at our school recently I remember one time I was on duty on the front oval and looked into the car park. The best car belonged to the brickie.

Mark

Oh, I totally agree with that sentiment!!!. I've seen some atrocious lecturers and I have some rather funny anecdotes about uni lecturers

That's the irony of the whole thing...even a TA gets big money. Quite frankly, they're not worth it.