Anyone heard of PMX shipments yet?

[rat156]

Originally Posted by frolinmod

Yes, the Tpoint Add On for TheSkyX can do automated calibration runs where it slews all over the place taking pictures and plate solving them. You only need to map six or so points manually (with some on each side of the meridian) before pointing gets good enough for plate solves to start working reliably so that you can do the rest with an automated calibration run. When I set my mount up, I first do six to twelve points manually (with some stars on each side of the meridian), then do a few short 25-30 point automated runs, tweaking polar alignment between each short run, then do my long automated run of 180 or more points once I have polar alignment good enough. Then I turn ProTrack on. Five minutes unguided at f/11 and 3911mm focal length (EdgeHD 14) with perfectly round stars is routine. Ten minutes unguided at the same focal length is achievable, but takes more time tweaking polar alignment. Certainly worth doing for a long term set up (in the backyard), but not usually worth the time at a remote site.

Can you detail the T-Point polar align method?

I ran a couple of 20 point automated runs the other night, but the azimuth kept oscillating between 4 click East and 4 click West. I'm OK with doing the automated run, I just synced on one known star and let it go. What I'm unsure of is what do I have to do after adjusting the mount? I cleared the model, is this right?

Cheers
Stuart

[Paul Haese]

Originally Posted by rat156

Can you detail the T-Point polar align method?

I ran a couple of 20 point automated runs the other night, but the azimuth kept oscillating between 4 click East and 4 click West. I'm OK with doing the automated run, I just synced on one known star and let it go. What I'm unsure of is what do I have to do after adjusting the mount? I cleared the model, is this right?

Cheers
Stuart

Do this Stuart.

2 runs each doing 6-10 points in the same constellation (use a really small grouping of stars, don't go too wide as this causes problems and gives you the results you are getting). Use pinpoint, tpoint mapper, the sky and maxim. If you like go a third time and do the exact movement asked by tpoint. Then once you have the PA close and it will get pretty close, do a 50 point model. Remember each time to remove the previous model and insert a new one. Once you have done the 50 point model, then head off on the 250 to 300 point model. I am using a 180 point model and the pointing is around 10.3" from true.

Also make sure you have the correct time. Do an update on your internet time and that gets you close enough.

[Paul Haese]

Don't clear the model, delete it from the sky Stuart.

Charles are you using the programes I have jsut mentioned? If not get them. It makes modelling and plate solving a breeze. Makes sure you get your scale pretty close. It does not have to be perfect but it must be close.

[rat156]

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

Do this Stuart.

2 runs each doing 6-10 points in the same constellation (use a really small grouping of stars, don't go too wide as this causes problems and gives you the results you are getting). Use pinpoint, tpoint mapper, the sky and maxim. If you like go a third time and do the exact movement asked by tpoint. Then once you have the PA close and it will get pretty close, do a 50 point model. Remember each time to remove the previous model and insert a new one. Once you have done the 50 point model, then head off on the 250 to 300 point model. I am using a 180 point model and the pointing is around 10.3" from true.

Also make sure you have the correct time. Do an update on your internet time and that gets you close enough.

Thanks Paul.

I don't have pinpoint or t-point mapper, I have The Sky X and the T-point add-on maybe that's the same functionality? Will try this tonight if the wind drops a bit.

[rat156]

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

Don't clear the model, delete it from the sky Stuart.

Charles are you using the programes I have jsut mentioned? If not get them. It makes modelling and plate solving a breeze. Makes sure you get your scale pretty close. It does not have to be perfect but it must be close.

How does one delete the model Paul?

Cheers
Stuart

[Paul Haese]

Click on the model and then go up to edit and click delete.

I think you need pinpoint for automation and believe me it is worth the money. Don't try to do this manually. It takes too long and you cannot get it as accurate as automation.

[rat156]

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

Click on the model and then go up to edit and click delete.

I think you need pinpoint for automation and believe me it is worth the money. Don't try to do this manually. It takes too long and you cannot get it as accurate as automation.

T-Point add-on for TSX has automation.

It is fantastic!

Do you add in the addition terms for the model?

Cheers
Stuart

[Paul Haese]

Yes, I have 12 terms in all. That is 6 extras.

I don't think you can plate solve without pinpoint but the skyX might have pinpoint incorporated. Greg or Marcus would know.

[Terry B]

I have the sky x pro without any of the add on extras and it can certainly plate solve. I haven't needed the extras yet but may get them.

[gregbradley]

I use Automapper 11 and the Sky V6.0. Automapper 11 is free at newastronomypress - Ron Wodaski's site.

At first it did not plate solve. Marcus helped me there. I needed to add
a larger star database. USNO2.0 I think its called or something similar.

I then had to link that new database in the sky so it "knew" it was there.

Then automapper worked like a charm. With the fast downloading FLI camera (one of its endearing characteristics) I am able to slew, image and plate solve in 19 seconds per point. So in an hour I accumulate
about 180 or so points in the model.

You control the spread of points in automapper by adjusting the parameters of the number of points you want done and if any sections of the sky you don't want, minimum altitude etc.

I know Paul had a lot of trouble with the same setup so I don't know what the intricasies are. Perhaps it is to do with the linking and installing of the database of stars and making it active in the display explorer.

Basically when you zoom in far enough all these extra star become visible with their designations. Then you know its all setup properly.

You also need to set the north angle. The way I did this is to plate solve a saved image using CCDsoft under research. That then gives a north angle. You add this into the data needed for Automapper and off it goes. Without the north angle it fails. I assume north angle means how many degrees away from due north the image is.


Greg.

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

Maybe 300-1000 points Greg, so I have read. There are a couple of threads on SB about the number of points.

Originally Posted by rat156

Can you detail the T-Point polar align method?

I ran a couple of 20 point automated runs the other night, but the azimuth kept oscillating between 4 click East and 4 click West. I'm OK with doing the automated run, I just synced on one known star and let it go. What I'm unsure of is what do I have to do after adjusting the mount? I cleared the model, is this right?

Cheers
Stuart

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

Yes, I have 12 terms in all. That is 6 extras.

I don't think you can plate solve without pinpoint but the skyX might have pinpoint incorporated. Greg or Marcus would know.

[gregbradley]

A few points about t-point.

Its best to do it in one night. I am not sure if there is a rule that it must be but I've been told that and it seems reasonable.

If you adjust your mount according to the t-point polar alignment model you need to delete the model and start again after the adjustments.

Before you do the polar alignment model you need to delete outlier points in the model as per the tutorial. Otherwise you get a less accurate evaluation of your polar alignment.

I don't know if all this is now automated with the Sky X t-point.

Read the t-point tutorial as it is quite involved.

You add terms in a certain way and each must lower certain values otherwise you are not improving the model.

You had to have a certain number of points before you start adding terms. As I recall it was 50. If you want large numbers of extra terms you need a large model like 200 points. Again as I recall from the tutorial where it is all specified.

The first terms to try out are mentioned in the tutorial. I found these worked as per the tutorial.

The result is very accurate go-tos (mine aren't dead centre of the image but close to it and the object seems to be not far from the centre of the image of a 16803 camera chip at 2958mm focal length. I am sure I could get mine more accurate.

My polar alignment is very accurate (Around 30-40 arc seconds) but again I could tweak that last tiny bit I am sure. I get round stars at 2958 with PEC. Without PEC there is some minor elongation. I probably could tweak it so there is no star elongation without PEC. But that is a guesstimate.

When you do the PEC make sure you have the east-west button autodetect otherwise your PEC curve will be upside down and worsening not improving. That took me 3 months to spot!

Greg.

[cfranks (Charles)]

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

Don't clear the model, delete it from the sky Stuart.

Charles are you using the programes I have jsut mentioned? If not get them. It makes modelling and plate solving a breeze. Makes sure you get your scale pretty close. It does not have to be perfect but it must be close.

Thanks Paul, I have them all except Tpoint mapper. I will look into getting it.
I did a Tpoint run tonight, purely for my education as it was (and still is) blowing realy hard and intermittently cloudy and it was impressive how soon the mount got slewing to a few arc mins of the target. Bodes well.

Charles

[Paul Haese]

Originally Posted by gregbradley

I know Paul had a lot of trouble with the same setup so I don't know what the intricasies are.

I tried all the things that Greg mentioned here, including linking and using the larger data base. I found using automapper II, with CCDsoft and the sky6 the plate solves were not accurate at all. It would often use only 6 or 10 stars to plate solve and only 50% of images solved. Those I suspected as being not accurate. I tried using this system for over a month (about 7 or 8 nights) with no success at all.

The first night I used Tpoin mapper with pinpoint and maxim it plate solved every image. I got my PA and pointing run done in 2 hours and have never looked back. I did not have to fiddle or check settings or anything, it just worked.

I put this down to a few things. Vista as the operating system might be part of the problem. Software bisque stuff has problems with certain operating systems as a rule. Check out all the questions on their forum about software not working. CCDsoft is just crap in my opinion, Maxim has more capture related features and a better plate solving system. While CCDsoft looks good in practice it does not work well at all. You can only setup 4 filters and the program does not immediately recognise which filter goes where. Maxim does. Also Automapper II is not as comprehensive as Tpoint Mapper. There are so many more features which make it infinitely better. Most people I know that have used CCDsoft with automapper II end up using the system I am using. I was told from a mate to use it from the start. Anyone who uses the system I am using never seems to have plate solving problems. Anyway make your own choice, I just felt everyone should know the frustrations that I had and how I ended up succeeding. I will not recommend something that I believe is substandard. I paid good money for CCDsoft and now cannot use it.

[gregbradley]

Quite possibly the major reason it was difficult was Vista. I had trouble with virtually every single program I use with Vista. None of my camera, filter wheel drivers worked and they were always a fight to get them to install and operate. I am sure now Maxim has it sorted
but I bet when Vista was new it was a handfull as well.

CCDsoft is a bit dated and could do with a facelift. The 4 filter limitation for programmed exposures is my biggest constraint.
It also does not allow all features of your FLI camera to be used like the RBI annihilator and the download speeds.

It is handy though that it integrates well with the Sky and the Paramount. Its good if you got it for free - put it that way hehehe.

I only use it because I am familiar with it and it came with my first SBIG camera.

Maxim does seem the way to go though.

Greg.

[pmrid (Peter)]

Hi guys.
has anyone else had an opportuinity to set up their PMX to guide via the ST4 port on the VersaPlate.
I finally managed to get everything set up tonight and was ready to try a simple bit of PHD calibration.
I am using a QHY5 and piggy-backing a 480mm FL guidescope on top of the astrograph. Nothing particularly heroic.
PHD does not seem to be making much of an impact on TheSkyX though. On that TCS page which shows that little graphic of the guide relays down the bottom, they did show as activating but not the way you'd expect. hen PHD was doing West and East calibration steps, the graphics for the relays showed the west and south relays being acxtivated. SImilarly, then NS steps were happening, the Nand E relays showed as activating.
And also, PHD displays the distances it instructs the mount to travel (in the bottom bar) but on this occasion, it did not actually show any distance/correction numbers for each step - probably 1 on 5 or 6 more like.
And for every step PHD said it was doing, the relays did not activate. Rather, they too only activated every ten or so.
I'm stumped.
ANyone able to offer guidance.
Peter

[nickbtx (Nick)]

Originally Posted by pmrid

On that TCS page which shows that little graphic of the guide relays down the bottom, they did show as activating but not the way you'd expect. hen PHD was doing West and East calibration steps, the graphics for the relays showed the west and south relays being acxtivated. SImilarly, then NS steps were happening, the Nand E relays showed as activating.
Peter

Hi Peter,
This sounds like the same problem I had, which was corrected with firmware (at least one other person had the same problem as well). Let Bisque know what you're seeing.
Nick

[rat156]

Originally Posted by nickbtx

Hi Peter,
This sounds like the same problem I had, which was corrected with firmware (at least one other person had the same problem as well). Let Bisque know what you're seeing.
Nick

Hi Peter,

Mine don't seem to work.

I'm using direct guide from CCDSoft to guide the mount.

Cheers
Stuart

[pmrid (Peter)]

Originally Posted by rat156

Hi Peter,

Mine don't seem to work.

I'm using direct guide from CCDSoft to guide the mount.

Cheers
Stuart

Stuart, at least you're getting TSX and CCDS to talk to ne-another.
I can't get TSX to bring up either a guide cam or an imaging cam. ANy ideas?
Peter

[gregbradley]

If you are using CCDsoft set it to direct guide in the autoguiding dialogue box. It gets rid of a guide cable and per Bisque results in better guiding.

Its very convenient and a nice feature of the Bisque mounts. I am expecting my PMX in about 2 weeks time.

Greg.

[frolinmod]

Originally Posted by rat156

Can you detail the T-Point polar align method?

Pay no attention to anyone here who is running old software like TheSky6. Those guys are dinosaurs.

If your polar alignment is oscillating back and forth between Tpoint Add On runs, then instead of making the full adjustment, make only half or a little more than half the indicated adjustment each time. That way you can't overshoot. Once you get within an arc-minute of the pole in each axis, you can stop trying to get closer because when you're that close it gets very difficult to get closer without overshooting or wandering around like a random drunk walk.

Be sure you're re-synchronizing and starting a new model with each iteration. Go into TSX->telescope->bisque tcs->utilities, clear the synch history, then take a picture, image link, then sync on linked image. Then go into TSX->Telescope->Tpoint Add On->Tpoint Add On Settings->New to clear all the old data out before you start the next iteration. Collect at least 25-30 points, click on supermodel. Check and adjust polar alignment. Iterate. Good enough polar alignment takes three or four iterations. About an hour of work.

If you have an MX and can see the pole, then using a polar scope will get you closer faster. Alas, I have an ME and often can't see the pole area of the sky anyway, darn trees.